Status of Women Committee on Nov. 19th, 2007

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I am going to ask you to clarify a few things for me, as I want to make sure that I am understanding you properly. It is the Minister who has final responsibility for the Status of Women, and it should, therefore, be the Minister whom we question. I am struggling to understand why we would invite officials here to question them on matters that are the responsibility of the Minister. I appreciate that they have a certain expertise, but it is the Minister who is responsible for the Status of Women. If we are going to meet with somebody to discuss these issues, then it ought to be the Minister. I do not think that it is appropriate to ask officials to answer such specific questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Boucher, you have brought in a good point. We have had not the Minister of Finance but the Deputy Minister of Finance coming in to give us supplementary estimates updates and to tell us how they do budgeting--for instance, gender-based budgeting. The minister does not come down to the nitty-gritty operational level. That is why we need, from an operational perspective, the person. Civil servants have come before the committee. We have Statistics Canada coming. We have civil servants from HRSDC. We have civil servants coming because they are accountable to this committee.

On public accounts, we wanted the deputy minister to account for what they were doing. The ministers are accountable. They are always accountable in the House. But we need to see here, from the deputy minister, what they have been doing, or hear from their staff on what they have been doing.

Ms. Minna.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Madam Chair, I have sat on committees before where we have had HRDC...or I guess it's not called that now. It's HRSDC. I'm getting all the various acronyms mixed up from all the different changes.

We have had, as you say, representatives from various departments. Certainly while the coordinator is out, or may not be available immediately, there is a deputy or assistant deputy in the department responsible for Status of Women Canada. I'm sure this coordinator reports to somebody. She doesn't report directly only to the minister. I think the assistant deputy minister or deputy minister should be invited, and of course the minister as well. If the minister is not available immediately, it could be in a week's time or two, but certainly we could try to make sure that she comes as well.

What's our timeline for these estimates to be reported back, first of all?

[The Clerk]

Maybe Clara could explain a little more in terms of the difference between a department here and an agency.

In this case, my understanding is that the minister is, politically, the one who would answer why there have been cuts and so on and so forth, but it is administered by this Status of Women agency. So when you're going to your deputy minister, you're talking of a deputy minister of another department. What you want are people from the agency plus the minister, Madam Verner.

Am I right, Clara? Here I'm getting into places--

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I'm sorry, it's rude to interject, but I was involved in the department for quite some time. Yes, Status of Women Canada is an agency, but it reports, through its coordinator, to another bureaucrat. She does not report directly to the minister. I know that much. There is, obviously, an assistant deputy minister or a deputy minister to whom that coordinator reports, and that's who makes.... They have much more power than the coordinator does.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

We'll go to Madame Demers.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

I agree with Ms. Boucher, Madam Chair; it is important that the Minister appears before the committee. However, I have experience of other committees where even the Minister could not answer all of the questions because he had so many different files to juggle. Remember that last year the Minister of Health delegated the responsibility of answering our questions to his deputy ministers. The current minister is the Minister of Canadian Heritage, Status of Women and Official Languages. She obviously would not be able to answer all of our questions off the top of her head.

Status of Women Canada, the agency responsible for managing the program, already has a good grasp of the issues. With the help of departmental officials, we too can get a handle on the issues. If the Minister has time to come to see us later, then so much the better. We can use the opportunity to ask her more specific questions as to where Status of Women Canada is heading, after having come to grips with the basics.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I'm hearing consensus, then, that we send an invitation to the minister and to whichever department head the coordinator reports to. So we'll have to find out the reporting relationship. We can extend the invitation to the administrators, if they can come, without the coordinator. If the minister comes, I think she will need some backup, as well.

Are we in agreement?

[The Clerk]

Can we have something clear so I could let them know?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I'm sorry. I apologize, Madam Chair. I missed part of what you were saying.

What I was trying to say was that we invite whoever is available below the coordinator from Status of Women Canada and also the deputy minister or assistant deputy minister, who is accountable.

I apologize. I just missed--

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

That is no problem.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

My mind wandered for a minute.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Go ahead, Madame Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

We have touched on so many issues that I need to clarify something. If we do invite them, would it be for next week?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

If we do not have any witnesses, and if we have no business to discuss, then there'll be no meeting Wednesday. But we will have business to discuss as future agenda.

So we'll try to invite her for the week after, which is the Monday or the Wednesday. We have to give that option to the minister. We can't demand that she come.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Is that okay with everybody? No? Yes? What is the problem?

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

There is no problem, I just wanted to know whether it was Wednesday for certain. You are saying that she will come on either Monday or Wednesday, depending on her availability and that of the deputy minister. Is that correct? If they are not available this coming Wednesday, we can meet with them the week after or in two weeks' time, depending on their availability. Is that correct? I just want to make sure that we are clear on what is happening.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Are there any other questions on this?

[The Clerk]

So can I know clearly...? Can I put down that it was agreed that the minister, the deputy or assistant deputy minister, and the status of women program coordinator or her administrators be invited to appear before the committee regarding the estimates?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Yes.

It's the supplementary estimates and the full month's report.

[The Clerk]

Should it say either the minister, the deputy minister, or the assistant deputy minister?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I think the deputy has to come.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Is there a deputy?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

If there is no coordinator.... There is a deputy responsible for Status of Women Canada.