Status of Women Committee on April 10th, 2008

[Sheila Fraser]

Yes. If there is a statement or even a commitment by the government to doing something, we evaluate what it has done to implement that and the action taken to meet the commitment.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

How can the evaluation process be carried out?

[Sheila Fraser]

If it has made a statement about something...

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Let me give you an example. In its 2008 budget, the government intends to develop an action plan for advancing the equality of women in Canada.

[Sheila Fraser]

We will ask what its action plan is. We will study the plan itself, to see whether there are clear responsibilities, whether resources have been allocated, whether the departments have then implemented what they have to do in order to meet that commitment.

What we do is evaluate the management, the activities, and see what the performance indicators that they intend to put in place are, for determining whether they have made progress or not, whether there are measurement bases, whether they do evaluations. In fact, we evaluate the management, the activities for meeting the commitment. We do not do an evaluation ourselves.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you, Ms. Fraser.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have last question.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Minna raised this point with regard to our consideration of a GBA commissioner. I just want to make sure I was hearing what I thought I was hearing from you with regard to the best way to set it up.

I understand that if it is a stand-alone individual, there may be some time factors, in that it would take a long time. Under the auspices of the Auditor General's office, which is already in place, it would be more expedient, but you also said it depends on what kind of commissioner you want. Do we want someone at the front end providing advice, or do we want someone who is simply monitoring?

In terms of having it all, would it make sense, then, to make sure that the NGOs, the equality-seeking groups at the front end, were pushing equality through their research and through their lobbying, and then have the commissioner at the other end evaluate whether the recommendations from the groups had actually been implemented by the government?

[Sheila Fraser]

Yes, that's certainly one.... That's certainly the model that exists for the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development. Civil society obviously has a very important role to play in these issues, and as things evolve, it is really critical that there be input from civil society and from the various groups. The various groups will present differing points of view on issues, and it's important that government has quite an elaborate consultation policy.

Certainly in the area of the environment and, I believe, in other areas, we have looked at how well they have done those consultations and whether they have actually conducted proper consultations. We've done it as well with aboriginal issues.

The whole consultation aspect is critical to the elaboration of policy, and we'd look as well at how well they do that. Once the policy is established, we'd look to see the implementation of it.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Rather than fearing that consultation, government would do well to embrace it and support it in whatever way possible.

Thank you.

Am I good?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

You have one more minute.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

In your experience doing audits on behalf of the people of Canada, do you think those audits strengthen the federal government's performance in certain areas? Could you comment?

[Sheila Fraser]

I sure hope so.

Actually, after we do an audit, the departments produce an action plan to address the recommendations. The public accounts committee is very diligent in ensuring that the action plans are serious and well designed. I've seen the committee actually turn back some action plans that they didn't think were sufficiently specific. Then, to see if departments have actually done what they said they would do, we go back and do a follow-up audit based on those action plans.

The results of our follow-up audits indicate that in the majority of cases, government does make good progress. At the end of the day government officials really do want to manage their programs well; in fact, in many cases we see that as we are doing the audit, they will begin taking action as soon as we raise issues with them. We really do believe that yes, we contribute to better management of programs and to stronger institutions.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you so much, Ms. Fraser, for being here, and Ms. Smith.

Do you have any closing remarks to make?

[Sheila Fraser]

I would just like to thank the committee very much for bringing a very interesting issue to our attention. I will certainly commit to looking at this and to seeing what we can do. Perhaps we can get back to the chair and think about doing some sort of audit on how well government is actually doing in all of this, which will provide you with some information across government.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

I would like to suspend the meeting for one minute so we can have the next round of witnesses come in.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Members of the committee, please take your seats.

We have with us Ms. Kathleen McHugh, chair of the Assembly of First Nations Women's Council, who has a small presentation for us. In view of the time, we will have to give everybody a five-minute round of questions, because we have committee business to address after 10:30.

Ms. McHugh, welcome, and the floor is yours.

[Kathleen McHugh, Chair, Assembly of First Nations Women's Council, Assembly of First Nations]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good morning. [Witness speaks in her native language]. I bring you greetings in my Blackfoot language.

I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to address the committee and for the work you're doing in moving towards a greater gender action plan.

I have a very nasty cold. If I have to pause, I apologize; it's something I picked up in Ottawa.

I would like to briefly introduce myself and the role of the AFN Women's Council.

As you know, the AFN represents all first nations men and women, regardless of residence. The role of the AFN Women's Council is to ensure that the AFN is an effective advocate on behalf of first nations women. We have ten representatives, one from each region, who comprise the women's council. As the chair of the women's council, I also sit on the AFN executive committee and provide input into decisions made at that level.

I would like to begin my presentation by presenting the rationale for a culturally relevant gender-balanced analysis. First I will describe the AFN position on GBA.

In 2005 a renewal commission consulted first nations citizens about the role and relevance of the AFN. Coming out of the renewal commission was a clear message that the AFN must ensure that gender is considered in all policies, measures, and programs. It was equally important to the women consulted that gender be looked at from a cultural perspective. As a result, the AFN has developed a first nations gender-balanced framework. It can be applied to research, policy, and program development work.

We firmly believe our GBA will get better results for first nations women than other approaches, because it overlays gender analysis with a historical understanding of our culture. It asks policy-makers to look at the central role women played in pre-contact cultures, and how and why change occurred after contact. It asks them to offer options based on this context. In plain language, it explains how first nations women see themselves and where they want to go from here.

We hope that all federal departments will implement our GBA in work affecting first nations peoples. However, as we are looking at gender budgeting today, I will concentrate on two examples of why the finance department should apply a culturally relevant GBA.

Next I will discuss gender, federal budgeting, and Bill C-31.

Let me start with an example of a budget decision made in 2006, the cutting of the court challenges program. If the finance department had applied a culturally relevant gender analysis to that decision, they might have asked how cutting this program would affect first nations women. Would it be for their benefit or for their harm? Just asking that question would have led them to the Sharon McIvor case.

Let me take a moment to explain the context through a gender and cultural lens. In many first nations cultures, identity is passed through the female lines, a fact not recognized by the Indian Act. Since 1876, first nations women who marry non-native men have lost their right to live on reserve. They cannot vote in band elections or access the same health services as their brothers.

An amendment to the Indian Act in 1985 corrected this inequity, but only for a small group of women. We believe that about 200,000 are suffering because the 1985 amendment did not include them. Sharon McIvor, a descendant of the Lower Nicola Valley band, is one of them.

Sharon recently won her case in the Supreme Court of British Columbia. The federal government is appealing the ruling of the McIvor case. Because of the cancellation of the court challenges fund in budget 2006, she may not be able to afford the appeal. I believe that if the finance department adopts a culturally relevant GBA, it will be better able to predict the consequences of cuts; even better, it would be able to set goals by asking how it can advance equity for first nations women.

That brings me to a second example: matrimonial real property. This year the budget missed a key opportunity to assist first nations women, and here I am speaking of the matrimonial real property bill.

Under the Indian Act and Canadian law, there is no way to divide matrimonial property between first nations couples living on reserves in cases of marriage failure. The government and the AFN held a series of consultations with first nations women to find solutions. In the matrimonial real property consultations, women told us that they wanted access to timely community-based remedies that fit within their own cultural traditions. Unfortunately, the current MRP bill before the House failed to include these recommendations. Instead, the bill will force first nations women to seek remedies in provincial courts.

Now, if this is the solution the government is proposing, a culturally relevant gender budget analysis might look at issues like remoteness, language, and other barriers that prevent access to the justice system. The budget could also then set aside funding to ensure women in remote communities can have timely access to courts as well as funding to support educating women about their rights under this bill. Finally, finance could address the need for an increase in funding for housing.

In closing, I'll add that at this time the AFN has not been able to secure funding for implementation of our GBA; however, we have approached various departments, such as Health Canada, to begin discussions. We are anxious to see our GBA applied by Health Canada because we can see how applying a GBA to health issues could really benefit our women. For example, we know that across all age groups women have higher rates of diabetes. We believe looking at gender and culture will help us target prevention and treatment initiatives for first nations women.

I would just add that GBA approaches will be a key issue at the 2008 National Aboriginal Women's Summit, scheduled for this summer in Yellowknife. We see the issue of gender balance as critical, as it will assist all of us in creating a more just and humane society, not only for first nations, but for all Canadians.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you very much, Ms. McHugh.

If I give each round six minutes--and you can decide how you want to share it--we'll have 24 minutes at our disposal.

Ms. Neville, are you...?

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Ms. Minna has a question, and then I have one.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you for coming, and welcome. It is good to see you, and good luck with your cold. It's no fun.

I want to ask you one brief question. I agree with what you've said; there's no question that culture is a very important part. We've been talking here about culture and history and traditions of not only first nations people, but also of immigrant and visible minority communities in our country.

From what you've told us, Government of Canada policy is obviously not addressing the GBA properly. I wanted to ask you if you can give us some examples of any specific GBA procedures being applied within the AFN or within programs within first nations as good examples to follow.

[Marie Frawley-Henry, Senior Policy Analyst, Assembly of First Nations]

Good morning. My name is Marie Frawley-Henry. I'm am the senior policy individual at the Assembly of First Nations.

I just wanted to comment on that. We've had training within the Assembly of First Nations; as our chair, Kathleen McHugh, has mentioned, we do not have the resources. We do not have the key resources to actually implement this in any full scale. We're looking for opportunities to do that, but we have done initial training with our CEO's office, our national chief's office, key policy individuals, and other interested staff. We've taken those key initial steps to advance this work, but we need to have key resources to move this, not only within the Assembly of First Nations to be a leadership role but also to our regions and to first nation communities, and to pilot and test these to get adequate markers to proceed.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you both very much for coming today. I'm intrigued with what you're doing, and I commend you on it.

There have been a number of both initiatives and lack of initiatives by this government that affect aboriginal women. I'm interested in knowing how your GBA process would intersect with the federal government legislation--and perhaps provincial, but we're talking about the federal legislation.

How would you have brought forward your GBA on Bill C-21, on MRP, on the budget bill, and perhaps even on the Speech from the Throne? How would the processes work?

[Kathleen McHugh]

I think the work the Assembly of First Nations has done as far as the GBA would have been very instrumental in providing information that would have changed the legislation that was handed down.

In the case of the matrimonial real property, I think it would have been very beneficial in the consultations that took place in the regions if the women had been heard and the recommendations from the first nations women had been included in the decision.