Status of Women Committee on April 29th, 2008

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Who wants to take the time? There are two more minutes.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Very briefly, Madam Chair, if I could.

Has there been any assessment of the impact? I know it was asked earlier but I'm not quite sure I understand. Are you doing an assessment of the impact of the offices that were closed, what impact that may have had out there, positive, negative, in terms of access to Status of Women Canada?

[Clare Beckton]

We haven't done a formal study, but obviously we've been working very closely with our regional members of Status of Women to change the way we deliver service, to get feedback from the groups. Normally a formal evaluation is done as part of an evaluation plan, but that will be several years from now because we need a period of time when we've had the program fully operational, which has taken us this full year to do, and then to be able to measure that within a year or two. But we get continuous feedback from the groups and we try to work with them. If there are areas that we think are not working so well, we work with our regions to try to change the way we've done that.

So we've really changed the way we deliver our service quite extensively over this past year.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I understand that. I'm concerned that a proper assessment would be necessary so that while we change how we deliver service, we don't miss a lot of the people who may not be able to access...like rural Canada in particular, rural women, when you consider that offices are so far from one another that access is very difficult. Some of the women I've been talking to recently in rural parts of Ontario.... I went to two meetings where there were some problems. I just want to flag that for you.

To go back to the estimates, there's talk of developing a strategic policy advice and partnership.... Has that started? Who is being consulted for that process specifically, and who's doing the consultation? How is that structured?

[Clare Beckton]

When we talk about strategic projects, we're not necessarily talking about formal consultation and strategic partnerships. We do work together with departments in trying to identify gaps, and of course in our discussions with groups, as our regions work with them, as we look at the projects we're funding, as we look at the extensive consultations that were held in 2005, we try to identify gaps.

We also try to work with departments in areas where we know there are gaps and when they're beginning to develop initiatives, to ensure that women's issues, the gender considerations, are being taken into effect, so that it's broad-based. It's not something where you can say, this is how it's done, A-B-C; it depends on the issues. For example, on the questions of matrimonial real property, we did give input to Indian Affairs as they were developing it to ensure that some of the issues of concern we had were raised.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Deschamps, you have seven minutes.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

If I have any time left at the end, I'd like to share it with Ms. Demers.

I'd like to come back to the action plan. I would like to know what your involvement is in its development. There's been a lot of consultation with women's groups and leaders. Have you been part of this? Are you giving Status of Women Canada the tools it needs to develop this action plan? And when you do so, do you always start with the premise that your political orientation is very clear and unambiguous?

[Clare Beckton]

Is that your question?

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I'd like to know to what extent you are able to influence the departments. Over the years, you have developed a certain amount of expertise. Are you successful in making it known that the direction being taken is not in line with the set objectives and that the way programs are attributed needs to be reviewed since they don't really correspond to the experiences being lived out on the ground? Do you wield any influence when it comes to developing the government's strategic plan for its action plan?

[Clare Beckton]

I like to think we will have influence. But I think the action plan will be developed the way policy and plans are normally developed. It's a relationship between the direction from our ministers, from the government of the day, and the work we do in moving forward to implement and then to help develop that plan of action. Normally the departments—Status of Women Canada, in this case—would be working together with the minister on the elaboration of the directions for the action plan and on the consultation. And yes, we would very much be involved. The Minister for Status of Women Canada has the lead with respect to the plan d'action.

I like to think we're influential. We're certainly working to be influential around the government, in terms of influencing our colleagues and helping them to understand the need for consideration of women's issues in all the work they do.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

You talk about being influential, but the fact remains that several Status of Women Canada offices, including regional offices, have been closed. Once these offices close, doesn't Status of Women Canada become somewhat disconnected from what is going on in the regions? It must be quite risky, when you close an office, be cause you may no longer have your finger on the pulse of Canada's regions, and of shrinking Status of Women Canada's coverage. In what way are you influential now? How do you get feedback about what's going on in the regions so that you can both develop policies or a strategy, while at the same time being sure that they'll really address the needs and problems faced by women, and particularly those who live in the regions?

[Clare Beckton]

Simply because we don't have as many offices doesn't mean we aren't able to be in touch with the regions. There are a number of ways we can be in touch.

Over this past year, along with the director general of the women's program, we travelled extensively across the country, meeting with women's groups, talking about what their issues were and about how we can better serve them.

I have asked our regional offices to ensure that they travel as much as possible within the region to talk to the various groups. We have a 1-800 line. We have held consultations around the women's program and the new criteria, using telephone conferences, plus group consultations, where we bring the groups together. Our regional heads also attempt to participate in key federal council meetings in the regions. They try to attend important meetings, where possible.

So I think we still have the means to ensure that we are in touch with what's important. I've certainly made every effort I can to be out there as much as possible, making myself visible and inviting feedback.

When I was at the United Nations in New York, we also had an opportunity to meet with a lot of our NGO delegates who were there. In fact, we briefed them every day, but we also had opportunities for a lot of feedback. We found that very helpful, because they have networks and they're able to assist us through those networks as well.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

A number of witnesses have made the following point to us. Canada is very large, and every province—I am referring here to Quebec—develops measures to meet the needs of families, women and so on. If I look at what Quebec has done, compared with the rest of Canada, how many so-called universal programs that have been put in place can meet women's needs in a universal way? There are major differences between the various regions, let alone the various provinces.

Take, for example, the demands that come from western Canada. They are very different from the demands and expectations, the needs and concerns, of women in Quebec. Basically, the word "poverty" has the same meaning, but the needs are very different. How can we set priorities and advance the cause of women in a fair way when some provinces are behind others in terms of their programs? Would that not be favouring some over others?

[Clare Beckton]

I think it's like any other public policy-making program, where obviously the government works to accommodate those regional differences.

In our programming, of course, we look at the individual applications that are coming in. They indicate what some of the region's challenges and needs may be, so the types of programs that are being funded in one region may differ from another. For example, in one corner of New Brunswick we funded some femmes acadiennes because they had particular needs relating to the minority language group in New Brunswick. Now that may not be an issue in another part of the country.

So we're very sensitive to that, and our regional offices are very sensitive to those differences. And when we talk to groups, we also work very closely with our provincial counterparts, and that's very helpful to us because they can feed to us. Whenever we're doing grants now, we make sure we talk to our provincial counterparts to ensure that the grants and contributions we're giving are aligned with their priorities, so we're not undercutting any provincial priorities. That is very helpful. We have regular meetings with them to ask, “What are your priorities? Where are you going? How can we work together to make sure the money we're putting in actually supports your priorities as well?” And that's been very successful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

We now go to Mr. Stanton for seven minutes.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Continuing along the line of questioning pertaining to the budget, the chair has mentioned some numbers here, and I still would like to see if you could clarify what might be in the wind here in terms of these numbers, because I think there has been some confusion created.

I reference, for example, the top of page 4 in the estimates, part III, and I'm looking at the 2008-09 numbers. When we break out the $24.761 million we see just shy of $7.5 million in operating expenses and $16.25 million in grants and contributions, for example. That's about the only breakout we actually see of the main estimates.

If we were to go back to look at 2006-07, in rounded-off numbers, what would that same distribution look like?

[Clare Beckton]

I'm going to ask my head of corporate to answer that for you, to make sure it's absolutely right.

[Cindy Paquette, Director, Corporate Services Directorate, Status of Women Canada]

In 2006-07, we had grants and contributions of $11.8 million, and then the rest would have been operating expenses. The total budget was $24.6 million, and it included the Sisters in Spirit initiative and the women's program.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

And was the Sisters in Spirit initiative included in the $11.8 million?

[Cindy Paquette]

Yes.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Okay, that's under grants.

So really what we're talking about here is roughly another $12 million in operating expenses.

[Cindy Paquette]

Yes. I think it was a little over $11 million at the time before the cut, yes.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Okay, and that's now down to around $7.5 million.

[Cindy Paquette]

Yes.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

So what we have here really, to put a fine point on it, is that the total budget for Status of Women Canada has gone up by approximately $5 million, but we've had a substantive shift from operating expenses to grants and contributions.