Evidence of meeting #9 for Status of Women in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was finance.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Okay.
Madam Peckford, you have a report on the last budget. That's what you were referring to just a little while ago. We have in the system now what's called results-based management or outcomes. But you're saying that we don't have results or outcomes on the budget; you just received the information through access.
Is there any reason why you had to get it through access? You were not able to go through the department?
4:15 p.m.
Program Director, Canadian Feminist Alliance for International Action
There's currently no other mechanism through which to obtain the information. There is simply no other way. It's not public information yet.
I think that to improve the quality of the analysis and also to better situate why you would do gender budgeting, it's really important to make aspects of it public. I don't think it all needs to be public, but I think that critical components need to be public. Because we're speaking about women, I think it's important to be in dialogue with the constituency that is women, the organizations that represent women, so that they can contribute to the process.
One of the more frustrating aspects is that for many years we haven't had reliable access to the finance department in any sort of meaningful way. In the absence of that, the only way for us to obtain the information about what's happening—
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Was there any GB analysis at all done on that budget that you have seen, and if so...?
4:15 p.m.
Program Director, Canadian Feminist Alliance for International Action
There was a GBA done on tax policy of the 2007 budget, and the access to information request that we received demonstrates that.
Clare, you may have seen it.
What I would suggest is that the analysis is done to some degree in a vacuum. It's not done with any meaningful goal. So many of the measures indicated a negligible impact.
I have other analyses here. I'm happy to share them, if it would be beneficial to others.
4:15 p.m.
Program Director, Canadian Feminist Alliance for International Action
Other analyses stated that the transportation, the public transit credit, for example, would be potentially useful to low-income individuals, many of whom are women, but because women have a more limited tax liability, they wouldn't benefit, in fact, to an equal degree, because they're not paying as much tax. So the tax credit, in many respects, wouldn't be all that meaningful to them. That's the kind of analysis you're getting.
What we don't have evidence of is that this analysis is actually influencing the federal budget, and I think that's the whole point of undertaking this exercise.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you very much.
We'll now go to Madame Deschamps, pour sept minutes.
Merci.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
First of all, I would like to thank you for agreeing to testifying before our committee from so far away as Africa. I listened carefully and I noted that the document you submitted presents two foreign models.
We are referring to Australia and the United Kingdom, among others. At present, and unlike what is being done elsewhere, Canada is not working closely with any government agency, association or standing committee that could provide advice or assistance or ensure that there is engendering of the budget process. There is no such standing committee at present.
Contrary to what is happening in Australia— as we heard last week—or in the United Kingdom, the Canadian government works from pre-budget consultations. At this point, it only obtains information or input by consulting a few targeted groups. I do not even know how these groups are chosen, whether they have shown some interest or if they have been recommended.
This is my question. Is there a non-governmental standing committee advising the government?
If not, that means that pre-budget consultations are the only means used by the government to consult civil society and to obtain snippets of information that may or may not reflect the reality of Canadians.
4:20 p.m.
Program Director, Canadian Feminist Alliance for International Action
To our knowledge, there is no other mechanism. Consequently, there is no possibility of access to the Minister of Finance during pre-budget consultations other than at the consultations held by the Finance Committee. It is truly very difficult to establish a contact, to have some input.
We have no idea why some groups were chosen last year. Every year we have tried to have access to the Finance Committee in order to participate in pre-budget consultations. We tried this year but did not succeed.
4:20 p.m.
Program Director, Canadian Feminist Alliance for International Action
Pardon me?
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
What were you told when you asked to participate in the consultations? Did they say, no?
4:20 p.m.
Program Director, Canadian Feminist Alliance for International Action
They said it was not possible. Not all groups that requested to be included were chosen. Our group was not chosen.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
4:20 p.m.
Program Director, Canadian Feminist Alliance for International Action
No, we do not know what the criteria are.
4:20 p.m.
Program Director, Canadian Feminist Alliance for International Action
I think the pre-budget consultation process is perhaps a mystery to many.
That is the case for many groups.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I feel that the more we hear from the witnesses, the more of a mystery it becomes even for those of us seated around this table. It is difficult to understand.
4:20 p.m.
Program Director, Canadian Feminist Alliance for International Action
I understand that.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Ms. Beckton, I would like you to tell me how Status of Women Canada can exert pressure on the government. Do you have the capacity to do it? How far can you go to advance very specific measures that help women, for example within departmental budgets? Can you take very specific action to lobby the government? After all, your staff has been cut.
It is a huge job. We see that a great deal remains to be done. I believe that a fairly important core component is missing. Previously, we had the opportunity to obtain information from research supported by the women's program, for example. Groups and associations could carry out research and probably also pressure the government based on the data collected through their research. We can no longer rely on that. Associations that continue to carry out these types of studies do so on a voluntary basis.
Your staff and the operating budget of Status of Women Canada have been reduced. I wonder what kind of resources you have and how you can function with what little you do have.
December 10th, 2007 / 4:25 p.m.
Coordinator, Office of the Coordinator, Status of Women Canada
I would probably use the word “influence” rather than “lobby” in the context of working inside the government. Of course one of the things we are doing is working with a number of the key departments, and we work with the central agencies on ensuring that people are getting training in gender-based analysis.
We've been working, as have Hélène Dwyer-Renaud and her team, with the Department of Finance in ensuring they are developing an understanding of what constitutes gender budgeting. We have, of course, been working with the other central agencies on how you ensure there is accountability with respect to the policies, programs, and evaluations that are coming in from those departments in terms of looking at gender. We can and will be continuing to have conversations with these key departments as they begin to augment their capacity and tools. I will certainly be having further discussions with the Deputy Minister of Finance in terms of advancing the work around gender-based budgeting.
Our ability is to continue to help the other departments develop the capacity to develop the tools to help them understand the kind of research they may need to do in order to get the results. As Nancy Peckford suggested, you're not simply doing an analysis, you are looking at the outcomes. Of course, the accountabilities that are required now are results based. All the government accountability mechanisms, like the management accountability framework, are results-based mechanisms, and that's what we're looking for.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thanks very much to each of our presenters today. Certainly I think we're finally...at least it feels a bit more comfortable. Maybe we've just been hearing it enough times. It seems as though we're finally getting somewhere, to maybe get a bit of a framework put in place so we can understand how we can tackle this.
My first question would be for Ms. Budlender, please.
You talked about putting together some review and so on for the Commonwealth finance ministers meetings, I believe.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
You talked about the Canadian response. I think you indicated the Canadian response was that we felt we were doing it, to a certain extent. I think that was when you put in the words, “we're doing it when it's possible and relevant”. I would like you to comment a little bit more on that, whether or not there are areas we can point out to make it more possible and relevant.
There is one other thing I wanted to ask you about. Near the end of your presentation you said the one thing we really needed to keep in mind, so that it would happen, would get carried through, the ideas would come to fruition, and the exercise would be successful, was that it needed to be kept simple and not burdensome. I wonder if you could elaborate a little bit further on those words as well, please.