Evidence of meeting #16 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Come back to me. I was going to speak to the amendment and to the tone, and I'm just....
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
If you're speaking to the amendment, go ahead. That's what we're debating, the amendment.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
I understand what Ms. Davidson is saying. I think it's important that this committee take a position on this issue, that it is unacceptable for the Karzai government to do nothing. While I understand what Ms. Davidson is saying in terms of not hampering the negotiations, I think it's important to give a message from this committee and from our government that it's non-negotiable to do nothing in this situation. I'm trying to think if there is better wording that might be brought forward. I'm not sure, and that's why I was thinking about a delay. I think it is important that a message go from this committee, and I thank Ms. Demers for bringing it forward.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
I don't want to belabour it, Madam Chair. I've been on this committee since its inception. It would be foolhardy to say I've attended it for every single meeting--I've missed my share of meetings--but I've been on this committee since its creation in 2004. It came about by a motion in the House, supported by the three parties sitting on this side of the House. I have never experienced the kind of tone, manner, events that I saw here today. We haven't always agreed. We come from different bases. We come from different philosophical bases and different life experiences, but there has always been exhibited respect, courtesy, and respect for the procedures of this committee.
We've worked cooperatively. We've been a model in the House of Commons in terms of working cooperatively in a way that virtually no other committee I've served on, and I've served on many, has worked together. I hope the day will come when we can revert to that manner of operating. We've been respectful. We've not brought forward processes as a means of making the committee work. We've allowed one another to speak. We've allowed one another to intervene when it's been appropriate in order to make a point. As I said, I have never experienced something like this morning since this committee was created.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC
Like Ms. Neville, I had raised my hand to talk about the tone that we have experienced here today. I would also like to comment on the amendment.
I am new here and I believe the Committee should meet to do some work. We come here to work together. There should be no partisanship. We come here to work on issues that affect women and that are very dear to them. The tone here should be one of cooperation. This is not what I felt today and I am very disappointed to see how we are doing our work. I believe we must change our ways. We cannot continue working like this. We will have to set aside partisanship.
Madam Chair, I congratulate you for the job you are doing. You have shown great patience today.
I am fully in agreement with the amendment. I believe our Committee has a responsibility to convey such messages to the government and that it is part of its role.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I don't think there was anyone in the House who could say that they were not absolutely stunned and appalled with this particular move by the Karzai government. So in speaking to the amendment, I would like to propose a slightly different amendment: that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women support the government in its efforts to continue to press the Afghan government to meet.... So my proposed amendment is to insert that we're solidly supporting the government's efforts in this regard.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
We need to deal with the amendment currently on the table before we get a second one to deal with, so we will call the vote--
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Actually, we have to get rid of this first amendment, and then you can bring forward your second amendment.
So we're dealing with Ms. Mathyssen's amendment. I'd like to call the vote on the amendment.
I'll reread it. We're not voting on an amended motion because we have to get the amendment passed first--or not. The amendment is to replace the words “to say what measures it plans to take” with the words “that it will take measures”. That's what we're voting on.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Where are you going to insert “that it will take measures”? Could you read the whole amendment?
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
No, because then we would be voting on.... Well, I'll read it, but we are not voting on the amended motion; we're just voting on the amendment.
If we vote on the amendment, then the motion will read:
That the Standing Committee on the Status of Women call upon the government to say that it will take measures if President Karzai refuses to repeal the legislation violating the rights of women in Afghanistan.
So we're now voting on the amendment.
Well, colleagues, the vote is tied
I don't want us to stop debating this motion, so the chair is now going to have to decide whether the amendment passes or not. I will vote for this amendment, and I will say why.
I will vote for this amendment because the amendment doesn't necessarily change the intent of the motion. So what we have is a motion as it was intended, with just a clarification of the motion.
Ms. McLeod's amendment would change the intent of the motion, so we're going to have to deal with that separately. So for the moment I'm going to say I agree with the amendment. Then we will vote on the amended motion.
Then, Ms. McLeod, I think what you can do is bring forward an amendment that will give us a new motion, if we vote for or against. Or if you choose, you can vote against the amended motion and then do it the other way. Those options are open to everyone.
So I will vote for the amendment because I think it maintains the intent of the original motion.
(Amendment agreed to)
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Now we will vote on the amended motion.
Well, if you wish, if you think you want to amend what is amended.... Cathy, is that what you're saying?
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Yes, thank you, Madam Chair.
What I was hoping to do is, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women support the government in its efforts to continue to press the Afghan government to repeal the legislation violating the rights of women in Afghanistan.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
All right. Will that be inserted after the word “government”? Just to clarify, are you suggesting that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women call upon the government...? Support, yes. If you send it to me, we can say....
So will it fit in after “women”?
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Okay. What I'm hearing you say--I don't want to read your talking points--is that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women support the government in its efforts to continue to press the Afghan government to meet the promise of Mr. Karzai, blah, blah, blah. But then, because we have an amended motion now, it will say “and call upon the government to say that it will take measures if President Karzai refuses”, because that's what you're doing. You're saying that's added to the amended motion.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
My amendment would compete with the statement that we continue to support.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
So it's adding that. If you're going to delete to say that it will “take measures”, we've already voted on that amendment, so we now have an amended motion. If you're just adding to the amended motion, that's one thing. Is that what you're doing? The first piece will say that we “support”.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative