Evidence of meeting #20 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was human.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
Are you worried that other similar intrusive provisions could affect your job, which is to defend employment rights?
General Counsel, National Office, Legal Department, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
I cannot predict what will happen, but as Ms. Roy stated, we have already filed an application with the court to declare the legislation unconstitutional. Constitutionally speaking the legislation is unacceptable in light of our responsibility to represent our members.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
I am outraged that women now have to negotiate their right to pay equity.
You've explained the situation very clearly to us. I will let my colleague Ms. Guay ask you a question about the situation in Quebec.
Bloc
Monique Guay Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Good day and thank you for joining us.
Women fought very hard for pay equity in Quebec, as you know. They have made substantial gains. There is a big difference between the federal public service and the Quebec public service. Despite everything, they must continue to fight because pay equity is being threatened. Nevertheless, I am convinced that their efforts will prove successful. In any case, we will be supporting them.
This is genuinely an attempt to bring women down. I'd really like to get some more information one day. Although a report has been produced, I'm curious about the figures for women. How much do women earn compared to men? It would be interesting to have that information so that a sound report on the issue can be produced.
What is the percentage of women in the public service? Can you give me a number?
National Executive Vice-President, Executive Office, Public Service Alliance of Canada
Sixty-two per cent of our members are women.
Legal Counsel, National Office, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
Unfortunately, I don't have any overall figures to give you. I can tell you that some rather large groups are predominantly female. I'm thinking here about the health services group in particular. In addition, we're seeing a trend to more women occupying positions in certain other groups and that's not something we've seen before.
So then, I'd have to say that it all depends on the breakdown for each bargaining unit. We could look into that.
Bloc
Monique Guay Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
In any even, we'd appreciate as much information as you can send us.
Legal Counsel, National Office, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
As I said, we're planning to submit a written brief and these figures could be included in it.
Bloc
Monique Guay Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
In order for us to produce a fair report and to assist you, we need a document that is well researched. I think it is completely unacceptable that women are still in this position in 2009.
Women's and Human Rights Officer, Membership Programs Branch, Public Service Alliance of Canada
If I might just add to that, it's important to remember that from 1983 and 1999, Treasury Board, as an employer, dragged its heels on the issue of pay equity until the complaint was finally settled. The federal government put up some resistance and while many women in the public service today enjoy the benefits of pay equity, the fight to maintain it goes on.
Our classification system dates back to the 1960s and needs to be updated. A review is desperately needed. We have been promised one, but we've been waiting for several years already.
It is ironic that pay equity is being put back on the bargaining table when the employer has always put up a lot of resistance and dragged its heels on pay equity.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
Ms. Côté or Ms. Ducharme, when organizations such as yours that represent large numbers of female federal government employees are under attack, are you not concerned at all that the rights of women in the general population will be targeted next?
Not all women have the ability to defend their rights. Are you not concerned that the situation could deteriorate?
Women's and Human Rights Officer, Membership Programs Branch, Public Service Alliance of Canada
Certainly we have some concerns.
This attack on public sector women is taking place at a time when this government has adopted policies that are detrimental to women in society as a whole.
First, in 2006, federal funding for day cares was eliminated.
Next, in the fall of 2006, Status of Women Canada lost its advocacy and research funding.
The Court Challenges Program was abolished. It's indeed ironic that programs that helped us to defend ourselves against unconstitutional laws were abolished. Now, the government has brought in an unconstitutional act that violates women's right to pay equity. Unions and civil society groups will no longer have access to funding for test cases.
So then, yes, I do think that this is part of an overall policy aimed at suppressing some of the gains that women have made over the past 30 years.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
I have a question for you, Ms. Roy.
We often read in the newspapers, or hear in the House, that in some areas of the law, it took a very long time for women's rights to be upheld. Someone even said once that it took nearly 15 or 20 years to settle a case.
When you are called upon to defend a women's right to pay equity, what's hardest for you? How much time to you devote to such cases? What does it cost to defend women's rights?
Legal Counsel, National Office, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
I cannot speak to these specific cases, because I am not familiar with them.
However, I can tell you that in the mid 1990s, PIPSC initiated an action to resolve some pay equity issues involving some of its bargaining units. This action resulted in a number of settlements.
Since it is always important to consider the group when dealing with such questions, I cannot speak to you about individual cases in which the Institute is involved. However, with respect to individual cases that may have arisen further to these settlements, I can tell you that defending the rights of our members is a responsibility that we do not take lightly.
If you look at the recent history of the Institute, you will note that we have launched two constitutional challenges. These challenges will take time and will be costly, but this is money that needs to be spent in order to defend the fundamental rights of our members. In so doing, the union is doing its job and assuming its fundamental responsibility, which, I repeat, is to defend the rights of its members.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
I have another quick question.
In your opinion, is it solely the responsibility of the government to enforce the Employment Equity Act? Do unions and employers have a responsibility to ensure compliance with pay equity legislation, or is this solely the responsibility of governments?
We are the government, but surely there are other parties—unions, as I mentioned, and employers—that are responsible for enforcing pay equity legislation.
Legal Counsel, National Office, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
It is important to clarify in this instance that we are dealing with a government that is also acting as an employer. Canada's international obligations are clear. Governments must play a proactive role. It is a role that the government must take seriously and that must be reflected in this legislation.
In other jurisdictions, unions have a duty to defend their members and they discharge that duty.
Conservative
