Yes, it takes time, but it takes a willingness for institutions to change as well. It's not just the women changing; it's the institutions that need to change. So I think that is what we discovered.
The other thing, the change that Madam Demers talked about, we found that it did take time. It has to be a generational change.
And I would like to say to Dave that today he is talking about his daughter and saying you will be able to choose what you do in a different way from your mother and your grandmother. I think it is because of men in their fifties now having daughters who are going to university, so coming out and finding themselves meeting that glass ceiling in the workplace, that men are asking why she can't move up that ladder when she's as bright as anything. They are beginning to understand the reality of some of that glass ceiling and they are also beginning to change it. But it does take time for that to happen.
Thank you very much. We have to move in camera now.
[Proceedings continue in camera]