Evidence of meeting #41 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was retirement.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC
There aren't any.
As regards public plans, you also mentioned that you are recommending that the Guaranteed Income Supplement be raised, and that other adjustments also be made. I would like you to expand on that. What kind of adjustments are necessary, in your opinion?
President, Confédération des syndicats nationaux (CSN)
First of all, the Guaranteed Income Supplement must be raised.
Second, current clawbacks that apply to other income should be reviewed. In that respect, I agree with the recommendations I heard a little earlier. There is also a need to update the formula used to calculate the pension amount, in order to reflect new realities, such as family caregivers. That is absolutely clear, as far as we are concerned.
Just to repeat, the very first step is to avoid weakening the public system—indeed, doing everything we can to prevent that from happening.
President, Confédération des syndicats nationaux (CSN)
The reason we insist on the need for guaranteed income is that we believe a fairer source of income must be found through the general taxation system—for example, to deal with situations such as the one the member's mother finds herself in, having spent little time in the labour market, as was referred to earlier.
Conservative
The Acting Chair Conservative Dave Van Kesteren
No. We're going to try to get everybody in.
Go ahead, Madame Boucher.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
I would like to ask a very general question. We have often heard experts say that workers are ill-prepared, or that they do not plan their personal finances appropriately. That is especially true for young people—members of the generation that follows our own. I myself have two daughters aged 20 and 21, and when I talk to them about planning their pension, they look at me as though I were an old lady. But I am only 46 years of age!
What can we do, as elected members of Parliament, whatever party we may represent, because we are all members of this Committee? How do you see that working? How can we educate future generations so that they have a better understanding of pension plans? What should politicians be doing about that in general? Should we be providing people with more information? That is one of the questions in my own mind, because we talked a lot about intergenerational differences. When I talk about pensions with my own girls, they tend to see me as an old lady.
Actuary, Confédération des syndicats nationaux (CSN)
I can answer that question. The day we individualize retirement, we place a very heavy burden on everyone, and especially young people. I am talking about retirement, finances and planning.
During the economic crisis, it was clear to everyone that even the best managers were having a lot of trouble dealing with the crisis. So, how can we ask the average person, whatever their age, to take responsibility for that kind of planning or management? Retirement planning absolutely must be part of a collective process. It has to be collectivized. If we rely on individual plans, on RRSPs and on individuals, we really will be getting off on the wrong foot.
Union Advisor, Education Department, Fédération des travailleurs et travailleuses du Québec
The FTQ takes exactly the same position; that is our leitmotiv. We have really spearheaded group plans and public plans.
As Ms. Casara said earlier, we support the position taken by Mr. Denison, who pointed out how difficult it is for individuals to make profitable investments. Often you end up paying huge management fees. Also, the person doing the investing is the one that has to manage the risk. In the last financial crisis, we saw just how difficult that is.
Conservative
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
I'm particularly interested in the suggestion about a type of sectoral collective plan. I don't know whether you are aware that in British Columbia there used to be a teachers' credit union that actually used teachers' pension funds to form a kind of credit union. Then it failed, so a whole bunch of teachers were faced with the challenges of not having money from their pensions. In your suggestion, is there any way this could have been prevented?
Actuary, Confédération des syndicats nationaux (CSN)
Pension plans are not going to prevent bankruptcies. It is important to understand that. However, we may want to review our current pension models with a view to making them a little less risky. They need to be better managed and there must be better governance. When plans are allowed to run a deficit, when that deficit is not absorbed quickly and when companies are fragile, we expose ourselves to pension income losses.
On the other hand, I do think some new models could be explored. In order to do that, the legislative framework in which all of our current pension plans are evolving needs to be reviewed. We must explore substantive reforms and new pension models.
Conservative
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
To begin with, I want to be sure that we will be receiving a copy of the briefs submitted by all the individuals and organizations appearing today. I would also like to receive a copy of the paper the CSN submitted to the Department of Finance. We have received testimony from employer organizations. They were consulted and will be submitting their documentation. If it were possible to have a copy of yours as well, that would certainly help us to identify the differences between what employers and unions are suggesting, in terms of responses.
My question is for the CSN. I would like to know what you think of industry-wide pensions, but in the private sector. That is trickier. One example might be the metallurgical industry, which includes a lot of small- and medium-sized companies, and even some large ones.
President, Confédération des syndicats nationaux (CSN)
I have frequently cited the example of childcare centres, which are not public organizations. Another major experience in Quebec was in the construction industry. The number of small companies is no higher, and it is not really that private.
We are proposing two solutions that complement each other. I believe that employers would be far more interested in industry-wide pension plans if they were required by legislation to offer a pension plan. If that were the case, an employer with only 20 or 25 employees would probably decide not to take on that responsibility alone—hence the attractiveness of working on an industry-wide basis.
There are sector committees in Quebec. That means that the parameters are already defined. That could be a source of inspiration or prove helpful in this case.
Conservative
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
Perfect. Thank you.
I want to start by saying that I'm encouraged by the focus on youth coming from my colleagues, and I certainly hope that concern carries over when we're dealing with a number of other policy issues that affect my generation, whether they are post-secondary education, health care, or foreign policy, for that matter. I also note that unfortunately research has shown that despite the fact that women are getting more post-secondary education, we are still earning far less than our male counterparts. As much as I'd like to think my future is rosy, many of my sisters are facing some challenging times ahead.
What I would like to hear as a bit of a wrap-up is the sense of urgency that you feel
regarding the changes that are required. We have been hearing testimony and different messages for weeks now. Some go over the same ideas. I would like to know how urgent you think it is to take action?
Vice-President, Fédération des travailleurs et travailleuses du Québec
Decisions and reforms of this kind are not made every day, with scissors in hand. This is something that really requires proper planning. That is why we are asking for extensive and transparent public consultations. That is also why we deplore the process that has unfolded thus far at the political level.
Consultant and Research Associate, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
I agree that there needs to be some kind of summit or consultation at which all the stakeholders are present--not just the people who sponsor pension plans, but unions, seniors, and everybody who has an interest in this.
We all have an interest in it. It is urgent. The so-called baby boomers are now in their sixties. They're going to be retiring over the next 10 to 12 years, and many of them will not have enough to live on. Some of them will be forced to go on working because they won't be able to afford to retire. We need to do something about it, because whatever we decide to do cannot be implemented just like that; it will take time to phase it in. We need to be deciding what we're going to do and then we need to start phasing it in.
Conservative
The Acting Chair Conservative Dave Van Kesteren
Thank you.
That concludes this meeting. I want to thank those on video. I see they're not there, but I'm sure our clerk will offer our thanks for their participation.
I'd also like to thank both parties here as well for the time and the effort that you've put into this. We thank you for your contributions. We know that it's going to be most helpful.
Go ahead, Madame Demers.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
Mr. Chairman, if you would like to wrap it up with our guests, I have a comment to make afterwards.