Status of Women Committee on April 26th, 2010

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

And thank you for being here and providing your expertise.

I'd like to start with Mr. Buller. You were talking about traditional approaches, a healing process in communities that has been effective. I wonder if you could describe some of that, if you could put some meat on the bones. What kinds of processes do you engage in? What is being effective?

[Ed Buller]

I think we have to look at it from a variety of sources and a variety of different approaches that take place. It's not one size fits all, and that's the basis of the work we do.

First of all, I should say we're not a program, but rather a policy initiative. So when you hear about millions of dollars being spent on certain things, my budget is considerably less than that.

We look for communities that have taken responsibility for addressing some of the underlying issues around crime and victimization and that may pose a unique approach or help us understand better how communities themselves approach the issue of crime and victimization.

One of the common denominators in all of the work we've done is that it has been women in the community who have established and maintained these healing processes, regardless of the jurisdiction or the community.

There is a sense that if someone admits to being abused or being an abuser, the key issue is that the community itself takes responsibility for addressing that disclosure. In Hollow Water, in Mnjikaning, and in a number of other communities we work with, that involves a group of dedicated people within the community who have worked with the leadership of the community to say that the succession of violence, be it against men, women, boys, or girls, is not acceptable in this community. So community leadership and commitment is key.

The dedicated workers spend time with both the victim and the offender to get the information in a form that could be given to the police. The information is then transferred to the courts, and the court and crown in some communities have developed memoranda of understanding with the community that allows these issues to be addressed by the community. They go back into the community with the victim and the offender. They work in one-on-one counselling, group counselling, or in ceremony.

The key to many of the successful processes has been the work done to address colonization. What they do is help the individuals through a process of decolonization to show where they may have come to in their life and their life experiences that has brought them into conflict with the law or to become a victim. That, in and of itself, is a major process. You undo a lot of the activities that have become normalized in the community, because parents don't know how to parent. Victims in some cases have felt that they are responsible for some of the actions that have happened to them.

A healing process looks less at the incident but at the underlying reasons for why the crime took place. In all cases, the victim is given treatment by a group of women, many of whom have been victims themselves. They have been able to share their stories to be able to show how, over time, they have addressed the issue of victimization, to the point where they no longer feel they are victims.

The offender, to be a part of these processes, must admit responsibility in public and be made aware of the impact that his or her act has had on his or her family, the victim, the victim's family, and the community as a whole.

It brings the issue out into the open and shows that the community itself has both the willingness and the capacity to address these issues in an open way.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

You are touching on something quite fundamental. We heard from witnesses from NWAC and Pauktuutit and from Métis women about the need for the community to take control of the situation itself.

A lot of numbers have been bandied about in terms of how much money is being spent. We know that $10 million was promised in the budget, but it seems that a lot of that $10 million is going to be for law enforcement and the justice system. How do we make sure that the support, funding, and initiatives are given back to the people? I think the only people who can make this work and undo what is a horrific wrong in this country are the aboriginal peoples themselves.

How do we get that message out that there are experts and it ain't us--meaning the non-aboriginal community?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Cathy McLeod]

I'm going to have to cut in here. That's another complicated question with only three seconds left. Certainly, hopefully, we'll get a chance to go back to that.

We are on to our second round now. It is a five-minute round for both questions and answers. We'll start with Ms. Simson.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for appearing today. It is a very complicated issue.

I'd just like to pick up on something my colleague said. There appear to be the best of intentions and reasonable funding, but there's a lack of a national strategic plan dealing with this. It sounds to me a little as though as a country we're taking a band-aid approach as opposed to anything else.

I'd first like to go to Ms. Morency. I'd like you to elaborate, for instance, on the $10 million that was in the 2010 budget, over two years. Was that funding a result of a plan that the justice department came up with, for which they received that funding? Did they have a plan in place? Or did they just say “Here is $10 million, and here's what we'd like you to do with it”? Is there an actual plan that we could read or see to determine if it has any merit? Could you please go into a little bit of detail on that?

[Carole Morency]

I'm not in a position to provide the committee with any details about the forthcoming $10 million allocation. All I can do is reiterate to the committee what has already been announced in the budget and indicate that the Minister of Justice himself will be coming forward with the details about the approach to that expenditure.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

It was specific to address the issue of the high number of missing and murdered aboriginal women. It was rather specific to that. So the money is there, but nobody knows if there's a plan, or there doesn't appear to be a formulated plan.

[Carole Morency]

I didn't say that.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Okay.

[Carole Morency]

I said the Minister of Justice will be announcing the details in the coming months. That's all I can say.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

There will be an announcement with specifics in it from the Minister of Justice.

[Carole Morency]

That's correct.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Okay.

Turning to another matter, I'd like to address Assistant Commissioner Paulson with respect to the training that officers and civilians receive. You touched upon the idea that there was cultural sensitivity training. Could you walk me through what that training is specifically in terms of how much time is devoted to that and whether it is ongoing? Does it include the civilian members of the force?

[A/Commr Bob Paulson]

Thank you for the question. I can speak about what we would refer to as regular members of the force and their training at Depot, which begins with about 35 sessions on family violence or domestic violence.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

That would be in general.

[A/Commr Bob Paulson]

Yes, but I'll pare it down for you.

In addition, there are probably 14 or 15 classes on aboriginal cultural issues and issues relating to aboriginal communities. Depending on where the officer is stationed, almost without exception, additional training is then given to the officer through what we refer to as “recruit field training”.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

That's what I'm referring to. If a new officer is dispatched to a detachment where there's an aboriginal community, there will be ongoing interaction. Would there be additional or ongoing training at the detachment?

[A/Commr Bob Paulson]

Yes, there would be, and it would vary from detachment to detachment. But it would be consistent in the sense that within the six months following the transfer or posting of recruits to a detachment, they would do recruit field training, which is the development of skills that they began to acquire at the Depot. It's consistent in terms of engaging with local aboriginal communities, understanding local issues, and refining the training. Additional types of centralized and localized training are ongoing throughout a member's career.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

In media reports over the years, there appears to be ongoing tension between the RCMP and some of the aboriginal communities. It could be argued that it's the same for our Ontario Provincial Police. There's no level of trust in order to make it work.

My question is in terms of hiring practices.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Cathy McLeod]

I'm sorry. You've had five minutes. We're on to the next one. There might be a chance for a third round.

Ms. Brown, please.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

In deference to my colleagues who spoke earlier about the coordination of programs, I did a little research before we started this entire investigation. I discovered that over 21,000 studies have been done in Canada on violence against aboriginal women. It's been well documented that this has been going on. Our chair, who's not here today, personally told me that she has taken part in studies on this issue for 17 years.

I hear today this is probably the greatest coordination of programs and services that we've seen in some time. I'm really pleased to hear this is going on. Health Canada has a part in this. Indian and Northern Affairs has a part in this. You're working cooperatively with provincial and territorial governments and with municipalities in order to get funding that has been put aside to where it needs to be.

As a woman, and I hope for all women on this committee, when we look at violence against aboriginal women, we have zero tolerance for this. We've looked at the causes. From some of the psychology I've read, I would suggest that violence against any person oftentimes occurs because the perpetrator has low self-esteem. How do we work towards solving that problem?

Mr. Sansfaçon, you said there are tremendous projects going on in education. One of the things I read here is particular to one of your projects. It says:

The project increased the development of positive social skills in boys aged 6 to 9. A significant difference in school achievement levels (reading, math and spelling) was found for both boys and girls at the intervention site.

I'd like you to talk about the education process. What's the retention for boys and girls in the school system, particularly for boys?

To the RCMP, who was somewhat cut off, could you elaborate on your initiatives for the prevention issues?

[Dr. Daniel Sansfaçon]

Thank you for your question. I'll try to address it as quickly as I can to leave enough time to Mr. Paulson.

Essentially, you're right. There is a lot of knowledge about the risk factors, the causes of later violence, whether that be...you mentioned self esteem. There is an intergenerational cycle to violence within the family, as well as other factors, for example, substance misuse, substance abuse, to name but a few of the known risk factors and the broader social contexts.

What is less well known is what the effective practices are. What can we do best to prevent these risk factors, particularly with young persons, leading to later lives of delinquency and crime and committing acts of violence against women? That's where we still have to learn a lot about what works--and this situation is not unique to Canada--to actually prevent....

These are some of the examples. We like to think that these are indeed examples of programs, of interventions, with some degree of success that could be replicated, adopted by other jurisdictions, other communities, to become part of what Ed was mentioning earlier as more comprehensive approaches. There's not one single unique approach that will suffice. We'd like to think these successful interventions will gradually lead to the building of a good knowledge of what works, and that these are the types of programs we would then be supporting to ensure there is less violence against women.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Paulson.

[A/Commr Bob Paulson]

In respect of your question around prevention, I think I've already spoken of our training, starting from an officer's entry into the force and ongoing throughout his or her career, but also in terms of localized efforts among our detachment commanders and the people who make up the local detachments. We provide a broad strategic framework, with materials from headquarters.

There are things such as our aboriginal shield program, which is an educational program for youths within their respective communities. We encourage local detachment commanders to create local groups with community members, to bring the educational component to community members, and to engage broad sections of the communities. We try to lead social workers and other areas in our communities to look for proactive solutions, mostly in the area of engagement with youth at an early stage.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Cathy McLeod]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Desnoyers now, please.