Status of Women Committee on Jan. 12th, 2011

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'd like to call the meeting to order.

I want to welcome the witnesses, who have come out on a freezing day. It is cold out there, so thank you for coming.

I want to just tell you that pursuant to what is known as a standing order, in this case Standing Order 108(2), this committee on the status of women is studying violence against aboriginal women: the root causes of that violence, the nature of the violence, and the different types and extent of the violence, whether it is domestic, societal, psychological, sexual, etc. We're looking at the whole breadth and depth of violence against aboriginal women in all of its forms, and of course the root causes.

Definitely we hope that aboriginal communities will be able to furnish us with some solutions, because it seems to the committee that we have done this, that we have been addressing this thing, for years and years, and we don't seem to be getting a lot of positive outcomes. We're very well aware of the work done by Sisters in Spirit. We feel that it has furnished us with a fair amount of background, but we wanted to talk to women and visit the country.

Now, does anyone know where Marlene Bear is, and if she is coming? No? Then we'll begin with the five groups here, and if Marlene comes in, we will add her.

To let you know what we usually do here, you give us a presentation of anywhere between five and seven minutes. I will give you a two-minute signal and then a one-minute signal so that you know when you should wrap up. At the end of that, we will open it up to questions from members of the committee.

A standing committee, as you know, is made up of all parties in the House. We do have members here from the Conservatives, the NDP, the Bloc Québécois, and the Liberals. Therefore, we will be asking you questions in a particular rotation.

I'd like to begin with the representative from the Prince Albert Métis Women's Association, Lisa Cook, urban aboriginal coordinator.

Lisa, could you begin?

[Lisa Goulet-Cook, Urban Aboriginal Coordinator, Prince Albert Métis Women's Association Inc.]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Chairperson.

First of all, I'd like to say thank you for inviting us here today. We don't get the opportunity very often to have a standing committee arrive in Prince Albert. I know it's the first stop here in western Canada, and I really appreciate that you've come here today despite how the weather is treating us outside. Maybe some of you are not used to this, but once it gets started here in Saskatchewan, it really gets started.

I'd like to briefly introduce myself. My name is Lisa Goulet-Cook. I currently reside here in Prince Albert. I live here with my family, which includes my husband of 19 years and my three teenaged children. I currently work for the Prince Albert urban aboriginal steering committee. We are being housed over at the Prince Albert Métis Women's Association office building. Actually, they're the capacity-holder. At this point in time, I've been employed by them for about six months. They do quite a bit of work with not only aboriginal women and children but also the entire family.

But the organization I work for, as I said, is the urban aboriginal steering committee. We receive an allotment of funding from Indian and Northern Affairs Canada. With that funding we are supposed to carry out, as a steering committee, basically the action orders from the steering committee itself. We make selections and then we put out a call for proposals to the city of Prince Albert.

Whichever agency wants to submit a proposal to enhance their current programming can do so. They state their proposal, and then we as a committee rate those proposals. Basically, we don't want a duplication of services. We want an enhancement, such as capacity-building for their employees or changing the programming they currently have, when it comes to our mandate.

Currently our mandate is basically to help aboriginal women and children, first and foremost, and the way we do that is by improving their life skills. We try to liaise with different agencies around Prince Albert to try to assist these women in finding further help for the situations they find themselves in.

We support a lot of off-reserve Indians. Our mandate is to try to help off-reserve Indians who are currently living in Prince Albert.

If you know Prince Albert's population, we are currently sitting at 54% in terms of aboriginal population. That comes from a census done by the community development department of First Nations University. It's not an official census population statistic, but it comes from a census that First Nations University students completed.

So when you look at the ratio across Canada, Prince Albert has the highest ratio per capita when it comes to aboriginal people. When I say “aboriginal” people, I mean first nations, Métis, and Dene people, and non-status as well. There are a few people who declare themselves as non-status.

That ratio of 54% is not surpassed by any other city in Canada. The population may be higher in other cities, but the population ratio is not that high. Other cities are averaging around 35% to 40%. Here in Prince Albert we're sitting at 54%, which means that over half of the population is aboriginal. A majority of those are children.

That's the highest population ratio of aboriginal persons throughout Canada. We have a diverse population as well here in Prince Albert, but as I said, our mandated focus deals with aboriginal women.

You said in the e-mail you sent me from the procedural clerk that you guys are looking at the root causes and at ideas for solutions. On the root causes that we see for a lot of our individuals and clients--not only those who I'm currently working with but those who other agencies are currently working with--we're running into a lot of individuals who have faced many abuses, such as sexual abuse and physical abuse in their past, and they think that's okay to carry on into future generations.

That, I find, is the most detrimental factor in the root causes. Individuals who go through those types of abuses don't have the self-esteem to say that it's not okay to live in that type of situation, so that whole scenario is perpetuated generation after generation. It didn't help that we went through residential schools; that didn't help either.

But what is most needed at this point in time is really accurately getting statistics in order to start giving more funding to aboriginal agencies that are operated by aboriginals. There is nothing more discouraging to a woman than going to an agency and not getting the help she needs. Ultimately, the children suffer in the end.

What we basically would like to see is more funding coming to aboriginally run agencies so we can help our own people. That's the only way we could see this cycle of violence--in any form, whether it's systematic, personal, domestic, what have you--this system of violence, being basically dragged through the dirt over and over again...it has to stop by having our own people looking after our own people.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Lisa.

Marlene has not come, so we will move on to the Saskatchewan Aboriginal Women's Circle. I have two people here.

Wanda and Eva, are you going to share your time or is one of you going to speak for the seven minutes?

[Wanda Daigneault, Treasurer, Saskatchewan Aboriginal Women's Circle Corporation]

I will speak for those seven minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right. I'll do the two minutes and the one again, just to give you a heads-up. Please begin.

[Wanda Daigneault]

I would like to say thank you to Hedy Fry for inviting us here and to all the women who are here--and for those who are not here.

I bring greetings from our president, Judy Hughes, and me, Wanda Daigneault. I'm a new member of SAWCC, and I'm also SAWCC treasurer. With me is my mother, Eva McCallum, our SAWCC north elder. I would just like to say that I'm new at this, so I may make a few mistakes. Just bear with me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

There are no mistakes when you're presenting; you're just presenting, just telling us what you think, so not to worry. Don't be nervous.

[Wanda Daigneault]

The Saskatchewan Aboriginal Women's Circle Corporation is a provincial membership-based organization dedicated to promoting and enhancing the status of aboriginal women in all areas of our lives. SAWCC works to unite and involve women by addressing issues of concern through education, advocacy, research, and resource sharing. We strive to advance the issues and concerns of aboriginal women by assisting and promoting common goals towards self-determination and self-sufficiency for aboriginal peoples in our roles as mothers, grandmothers, sisters, aunties, and leaders. Working in partnership with agencies, organizations, and governments in Saskatchewan, across Canada, and internationally, the Saskatchewan Aboriginal Women's Circle Corporation seeks to increase communication, collaboration, and access to necessary resources toward our common goal of equality for all.

SAWCC is one of the 14 affiliates of the Native Women's Association of Canada. Our membership is open to first nations, Métis, Inuit, and non-status women in Saskatchewan. Our programs and services are open to all women and families and have the following three priorities: to decrease vulnerability by addressing violence against aboriginal women, the elderly, youth, and children; to do networking and outreach to support individual and community participation; and to strengthen capacity and leadership creation and enhance youth capacity.

I'm here to share with you the reality of violence experienced by aboriginal women and girls and to discuss how we can take action to address this critical issue. Aboriginal women and families are suffering from a wide range of indicators that place them in a situation of vulnerability to violence and exploitation. To address this issue, we'll look at the root causes, circumstances, and experiences as well as at the responses to violence. The disproportionate level of violence experienced by aboriginal women has been traced to a number of factors rooted in the intergenerational impacts of colonization that have undermined the role of aboriginal women and families in communities--through legislation, such as the Indian Act, and various government initiatives, including residential schools, the sixties scoop and the widespread apprehension of aboriginal children into the child welfare system. Today's disturbingly high rates of violence against aboriginal women and girls, including violence that leads to disappearance and death, have both historical as well as other contemporary root causes and factors.

Through national initiatives such as Sisters in Spirit, the Native Women's Association of Canada has spent the last five years collecting new information about the experience of violence against aboriginal women. In the recently released report, “What Their Stories Tell Us”, NWAC reported 582 cases of missing and murdered aboriginal women and girls. In examining the cases of violence that have led to disappearance and death, we have to come to understand the much broader spectrum of violence and victimization impacting aboriginal women, girls, and communities.

My presentation will begin with the background and context of violence against aboriginal women and girls in Saskatchewan and in Canada. We will adopt a coordinated approach involving federal, provincial, territorial, and aboriginal leaders. As well, we will share recommendations and the next steps for moving towards action. My presentation expands on the three identified themes from the SWC hearings from last spring: one, murdered and missing aboriginal women; two, culturally appropriate services and filling the service gap; and three, the need to heal victims, families, and communities.

The background and context of violence against aboriginal women and girls in Canada is not easily summarized. However, the reality is that aboriginals are over-policed and under-protected. Statistics on violent crime, victimization, and missing and murdered aboriginal women and girls indicate that the rates of victimization for aboriginal women and girls are 3.5 times higher than they are for non-aboriginal women.

The rate of homicide for aboriginal women is seven times higher than for non-aboriginal women. According to Statistics Canada, aboriginal identity is one of the strongest indicators of violence, even when taking into consideration....

There are over 582 missing and murdered aboriginal women and girls in Canada. Seventy-eight per cent of the cases are from Ontario and west of Ontario. B.C. has the highest number of known cases at 160. These women and girls are young. More than half were under the age of 30 at the time of their disappearance and death.

With the information we have, we know that the vast majority of the women were mothers. This indicates significant issues related to the intergenerational impact of missing and murdered women, as children have lost mothers, aunties, grandmothers, and sisters. There are many questions about how children cope, where they live, and where their support system is.

One of the most important findings is that aboriginal women and girls are as likely to be killed by a stranger or an acquaintance as they are by an intimate partner. Another critical finding, which is consistent with the Sisters in Spirit report, is that only 53% of cases of murder have been cleared by charges of homicide.

SAWCC sits on the Provincial Partnership Committee on Missing Persons, which is chaired by the Saskatchewan justice department.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Now what will happen is that as we go through the questions you will get an opportunity to expand on things if there was something you didn't get to say.

[Wanda Daigneault]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Now I'll move to the Women's Commission of the Prince Albert Grand Council, with Shirley Henderson.

[Shirley Henderson, Chair, Women's Commission of the Prince Albert Grand Council]

Good morning. My name is Shirley Henderson. I'm the chairperson of the Prince Albert Grand Council Women's Commission.

We've been in existence for 20 years as the women's commission of the grand council. Our population within the grand council is well over 35,000. We have 14 members on our commission and also 12 first nations communities within the grand council. Three of those communities are fly-in communities: Hatchet Lake, Black Lake, and Fond du Lac. For many years we've been trying to get funding for a women's and children's shelter within the grand council area, but many struggles have occurred, and we have not been able to access any funding.

As for the shelter in Prince Albert, there are a lot of barriers for our women from the far north. The food is different, as is the language. A lot of our ladies only speak their first nations language when they come into the city. The culture is totally different. We do have a lot of barriers for our women from the far north. We're hoping that eventually some programs can be taken to the communities because of the vast distance the women have to travel. For those few who do come to our shelters, a lot of times they have no choice but to go back to the same situation.

The languages within the grand council are Cree, Dene, and Dakota. We were hoping that if we did establish our own shelter we could bring in all three languages, because this is such a barrier to our women.

The communities from the far north are very poor communities. The cost of living is very high. A lot of times, the first nations of a community can't even afford a plane ticket to send an individual out of that community into a shelter--for instance, in Prince Albert. The other shelter they have is in La Ronge. I'm hoping that eventually programs and shelters can be established for some of our communities, because for our ladies it is definitely home-based for them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Now I'm going to go to the ISKWEW (Women Helping Women) Co-operative Health Centre, and Angie Bear.

[Angie Bear, Community Development Worker, ISKWEW Women Helping Women Co-operative Health Centre]

Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity to come here and speak on the issues today.

I want to reiterate that some of the issues at the core of the violence against women are colonization and having generations of people going through the residential schools. You can imagine the turmoil and the upheaval of families. Traditionally in our communities we didn't have a whole lot of family violence because of the way we lived and because of our belief system. Our women were highly looked upon and honoured in that traditional setting. That is not the mainstream thinking today. Part of it is that the man is the head of the household. That clash of belief systems has been the downfall for first nations women in Canada, I believe.

Just to let you know a little bit about myself, as I said, my name is Angie Bear. I work with the ISKWEW program. It's a women helping women program that deals directly with abuse issues. Our services provide individual counselling. We offer support and referrals for abused women. When we are requested to, we support and advocate for women who are dealing with other agencies and government departments. We strengthen networks and cooperation among community-based organizations and groups. Through public education, we want to increase awareness regarding family violence.

I have just recently come on board with the ISKWEW program. I started November 26. I came from the Prince Albert Grand Council. I worked in the family violence area there for four years.

I've seen first-hand a lot of the core issues and where they come from. I understand the dysfunctions in our families and where they're coming from. I believe that when people wake up in the morning and look out the window, they don't understand a lot of the time where all of those issues come from and how they have gotten here.

I am an aboriginal woman. I grew up in Edmonton, and my family was from Saskatchewan. When I grew up, I had a lot of self-loathing, and I never understood why that was. I remember going home from grade 1 and saying, “I don't want to be an Indian because everybody hates us”, and feeling that way. I think it's those core issues that affect you, even when you grow up and you realize those aren't there anymore.

So first of all I'd like to address some of the issues that I think are really important.

Excuse me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

If you want to take a minute, some time, we'll stop the clock.

[Angie Bear]

I'm fine. I just get a little choked up when I talk about that part, but I'm okay. Thank you. I appreciate that.

I want to address some major concerns that I have in working with women on a daily basis in Prince Albert. When women come into my office and are prepared that day to leave a situation and I can't find any shelter space, this has to be one of my major concerns. When somebody is in a place where they're ready to finally leave that abusive situation, sometimes that window of opportunity is very small. Maybe they go back into the home, where they continue to be dominated, and it's not safe for them to come out until some time later. So when those opportunities come when somebody is ready to leave, and they want to leave now, it's really imperative that we have some place to place them.

What usually happens is I will get a lady who comes into my office and she's fearful for herself and her children. Maybe her partner has her children at that point and he's looking after them, so she can't leave at that moment because she won't leave without her children. When women leave without their children, they become separated, and then there's the whole issue of child apprehension. So they won't leave without their children, and they end up going back. They are put on long waiting lists. We have the YWCA in Prince Albert. If I can't get somebody into the shelter--and the statistics show that the shelter is full 99.9% of the time. So at any time there's never really any space available. You end up being put on a waiting list, and then you just have to keep calling daily, maybe a couple of times a day, just to see if a space becomes available, because there's so little space available.

As I said, there's the YWCA. They house women and children. And they have Our House, which is attached to the YWCA, and it's for both males and females. That space doesn't help children, though. Unless they can get into the YWCA, they will basically have no place to go. So it's really important that something happen with the shelter space in Saskatchewan.

As Shirley Henderson mentioned, first nations women need that space where they can feel welcome, where their language is spoken, where their food is being served, where they can feel comfortable and safe and secure.

There are other programs that need to happen. There needs to be funding for cultural ceremonies and programs to deal with those barriers when women get into those relationships.

The other major thing I want to talk about is sexual abuse. A lot of women come forward and tell me they've been dealing with sexual abuse for a number of years, and they don't have the resources to continue fighting. Sometimes their children are left in those homes and they are told it's a custody issue. They go to doctors.... They just can't get the support. There needs to be more education and support around sexual abuse.

One of the biggest things I deal with is when children are apprehended and there is no place for the women to really go to get the support they need. They're victimized. I think it has to be looked at, as to what is happening when children are apprehended when there's violence in the home. I don't think it's agreeable to have the woman be further victimized by having her children apprehended because she's with somebody who is abusive. I think we need to deal more with the abuser.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Marlene has not arrived, so I guess we will just carry on without her.

I'm going to move to questions. The first round of questions is a seven-minute round. The seven minutes includes the question and the answer, so if everyone could try to be as succinct as they can, we can get more questions in.

I will begin with Ms. Neville for the Liberals.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Let me begin by thanking each of you for coming forward. I know it's not always an easy thing to do, and it's certainly appreciated.

I have many questions, but I'm going to start first with Wanda. If you wouldn't mind, I'm going to ask you, in half of my time, perhaps three or four minutes, to give us some of the recommendations that you had in the brief that you prepared that you didn't have time to finish reading.

[Wanda Daigneault]

I forgot where I left off. I'll just add on to where I ended.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I don't know how much more time I've got, but I'm really interested in the recommendations you were going to make to the committee.

[Wanda Daigneault]

I think I started off with the information we have that the vast majority of women were mothers, and this indicates significant issues related to intergenerational impacts of missing and murdered women, as children have lost mothers, sisters.... There are many questions about how children cope where they live--where is their support system?

One of the most important findings is that aboriginal women and girls are as likely to be killed by strangers or acquaintances as they are by an intimate partner.

Another critical finding, which is consistent with Sisters in Spirit, is that only 53% of cases of murder have been cleared by charges of homicide. This compares to 84% for the overall clearance rate of homicide in Canada. We have also calculated the clearance rate by province and have found it ranges from a very low 42% in Alberta to 93% in Nunavut. The clearance rate for Saskatchewan is 78%. This is the highest clearance rate for provinces with a sizeable number of murdered aboriginal women and girls, which suggests that we need to look closer at what Saskatchewan is doing right.

While there are few government initiatives under way to address the issue of violence--such as the federal-provincial territorial working group on aboriginal justice, the FPT family violence initiative, and the FPT status of women forum--the evidence tells us there is a clear need to invest in programs and policies that will change the experiences and outcomes of violence.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you very much.

This morning we met with another agency and we heard many things. I guess I would ask each of you what your relations are with other organizations in the community, or what you find the relations of the women who come into your organization for service support, care, whatever you want, are with other organizations in the community. That is, do they get support from social services? Do they get the kind of support required from police? Do they get it from organizations like Second Harvest Circle and other community organizations?

What's been your experience with working with these women and their relationship with other organizations?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Who wants to answer that? Would you like to try that, Lisa?

[Lisa A. Goulet-Cook]

Thank you very much for the question, Anita.

Usually when anyone comes to our agency for help, it's already gone past that point where they've been involved with social services or they've been involved with child and family services. Most of the time they are involved with the judicial system, whether they have to go to court for charges, whether they have to go to court to serve as a witness against their abuser, which most likely is their husband or their common-law. So they are involved with the judicial system in many respects. They are involved with other family members who are trying to help them, but the most important fact is that they are there to help themselves and they really don't know where to turn.

I've been put in that situation where I've been faced with family violence. I didn't have a violent upbringing, but I've faced violence with my husband, which we had to heal from, and that wasn't easy. That's probably one of the worst times in my life. So not only do I have that personal experience in dealing with those situations, but we see clients coming into the office where I work involved with all of those systems and really not getting the help they deserve, especially when they have some type of evidence on their face or their body that they've been severely abused.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

That's what I'm trying to get at, Lisa. I'll have to do it on my next round. What I'm trying to determine is whether they are getting the help that's required from the community organizations, and if they're not, why they are not. Do you have recommendations that we as a committee can put forward to government, recognizing that there are different jurisdictions? Some fall within the province and some fall within the federal jurisdiction. We'll come back to that on my next round, which I hope I'll get.

Madam Chair, thank you.