Status of Women Committee on Jan. 14th, 2011

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Did they do mentoring through this program, Darlene?

[Darlene Angeconeb]

Yes. In the last couple of years we have done mentoring. The older women work with the younger women.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

I just want to get at the second part of it, Karen. I know seven minutes doesn't do it justice, nor would an extra five, but the second general thing I reviewed in the literature was family care, the focuses Darlene alluded to, the problems of sending the man to jail, and the woman having to leave, in instances.

I've worked in Mishkeegogamang, obviously. Over a span of more than 15 years, I have gone in and out of that community. I've seen that women's shelter go from being a legitimate women's shelter to a multi-purpose building.

Of course, during my time in Shamattawa, in northern Manitoba, I've had direct contact with what a women's shelter does, in a more traditional sense, in an isolated community. It still can give problems, and there is some value to getting relief by having at least one of the family members leave the community, for a variety of different circumstances. But I share your concern, Karen, that family care is something we should look at.

I'm just curious. We have a family violence initiative program, which is a long-term commitment from the Government of Canada. Are you aware of this program or have you accessed it at all?

[Karen Kuzemczak]

No.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Okay. Maybe I'll take the opportunity in a follow-up visit here in Sioux Lookout—obviously, you know I'm here quite regularly—to see if we can access this. This goes more to the core funding piece that you guys had identified as being problematic. You said earlier, Karen, that you offer certain kinds of forums when funding becomes available. And I can appreciate that, because there are women's places in different cities and towns in the riding that haven't always been able to consistently offer important programs. I know in Kenora we funded a great program.... Oh, sorry.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

We're at seven minutes. Thank you very much.

With the indulgence of the committee, I'll take seven minutes, because I'm the only New Democrat and I would like to ask some questions on behalf of my party.

I'll begin with you, Chief Toulouse. I promised you some time. I know that Madam Demers asked about the third of your three recommendations. So perhaps you could start there with whatever it was you wished to say and didn't have the chance to say.

[Chief Angus Toulouse]

Thank you. I'm going to leave my notes with you, but I'll read that third recommendation again, which is that the Government of Canada jointly establish an independent public commission of inquiry into the missing and murdered indigenous women in Canada.

As I said, I will leave my notes with the clerk, if that's okay.

There's just so much interconnectedness within the current infrastructure--let me just call it that--or lack of infrastructure in many of the first nations communities in the north. As you've heard, there may be one or two women's shelters in a first nation community, but when you have such a need for housing, this gets overtaken by that need. When you have anywhere from 15 to 18 people sharing a house, how can you see and allow 10 beds to not be occupied? All by itself, if you know what I mean, there's a dilemma for these communities when they're dealing with a huge housing crisis.

Then, of course, there is everything that is associated with this. When you talk about some of the issues related to poverty, and when you don't have any services, there is more likelihood of violence taking place. These are real situations, and I don't know how first nations can be heard. I don't know how women are going to be heard.

One of the suggestions...I know it's probably too late in the game, but it would be good for this committee to go to one of the remote communities. Anywhere in Canada, it's going to be the same. Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec, you name it, you're going to see the same challenges, and probably more so, I would guess, only because I've seen it myself, in Ontario. I think Greg can certainly vouch for that. I also hear about situations in the remote communities in Manitoba that are just as horrendous. There's much to be said about the visual, about being there and actually seeing the challenges that face the women who are in need of such services--and there is much need.

As was stated, there has been learned behaviour from residential schools. There has been much experience that people have had as they've been removed from their homes and in going back to try to parent.... Those multi-generational problems are there. Services need to be available to these women who are in need. Again, as was suggested, obviously these men require services, too, in order to begin some of the healing, but it's really about talking about trying to provide these kinds of resources so that communities can begin a lot of the healing journeys they talk about. I think there's a recognition that there's a requirement to plan for that healing, but it's not going to happen overnight.

This is essentially what happens a lot of times. There may be a spurt of money that is available, but they can't sustain...you have to remember that it has taken so many years to get us into this state, and it's going to take us just as long to get out. But we need the proper services. We need the mental health services. We need the facilities so our women can feel secure that when they are in crisis, they can stay at home--I mean in their home community, obviously, not in their own homes, but in their home community.

These are the multiple challenges we see in many of our first nations communities. There's the lack of infrastructure, the real need for services, and the real need for these services to be equipped with the kinds of competencies that the victims are going to need. Many times, first nations are left with a resource, but they can't really utilize it to hire the kinds of experts they need...because they would get less, then, than what may be available from other facilities or services, if you will. They're stuck with having to purchase services or hire somebody who may not have the accreditation to really provide the kind of service that's needed. I'm not trying to suggest that there's incompetence all around. No--it's a lack of resources that really limits how far they can go and the kind of service they can offer. It's the lack of resources that really limits how far they can go and the kind of service they can offer.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Chief, we've heard here and in other communities that the lack of housing--good, safe, and decent housing--is a significant problem. I can understand how that can create stresses. If you have several families in one residence, that creates real problems.

You identified the shortage of housing, and I'm wondering if the federal government has not stepped up to the plate in regard to social housing, affordable housing, whether we need a national housing policy that looks at urban, rural, and remote communities. Is that an answer? Is that a good beginning step?

[Chief Angus Toulouse]

What many of the first nations communities have said is that the government has made market housing available, which does not work in many of the remote communities. It may work partially in southern Ontario when they're right near a major centre or city where there is a lot of activity, but market housing in remote communities in the north, CMHC kinds of houses, really are struggling. They have a difficult time making that work.

I think what the first nations leadership have recognized is they need some kind of social housing that is subsidized for first nations communities much more than is that offered by CMHC and that kind of a program. CMHC has set aside so many units, but when you look at some of the criteria--and many of our first nations communities in the remote and north are in third-party or some kind of co-management--they can't access that.

Those are some of the challenges there.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

We'll begin our second round, again with Madam Simson, for five minutes.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you.

I'd just like to thank Mr. Rickford for his background as the MP for a riding, number one, geographically this size, and for the challenges he faces in representing all the constituents. In a private discussion we had, I was taken aback at the number of communities that have no access by road.

I guess my question—and I'm not being facetious, but I'm just racking my brain—is how do we successfully provide services to communities like that? It would seem to me that there are certain issues--and in this case maybe geographical--that inherently can't be easily solved.

For instance, there is the issue of women in leadership roles. I was always an advocate of getting women involved in politics. The reality is that there's a certain period of time, when they're maybe raising children, during which we just can't attract them. It just isn't in the cards.

Chief--or any one of you--how do we overcome that? Would the people in these communities be happy remaining there if the services were there or would they want to be closer to the services if they had a decent standard of living? I don't have a sense of that. Is this geographically a place where they'd like to be?

[Chief Angus Toulouse]

I won't take up too much time. I'll let others speak.

The cultural relevancy is really important for the organizations to offer the kinds of services they have, and it has to come from here. To parachute somebody in to help with the solution is not the answer. I think the experts have to be culturally sensitive to help, especially when you talk about mental health and those kinds of healing issues, and it is really difficult. But I guess what I'm trying to say is there are organizations.... You have Nishnawbe Aski who are trying to assist the communities. We have tribal councils that are working with communities. There are native women's...even though they may not be registered with the Ontario association, who are trying to help with that. What I'm trying to say is they have the answers, and they just need to be resourced. They need to be assisted in terms of some of the evaluations or the assessments maybe that need to be ongoing. But the bigger issue is that there's just no recognition, and there are no resources available, or there are very limited resources that really don't do justice to the victims who are out there.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

But let's assume that we had some kind of strategy in terms of affordable housing, or a package where we could provide the housing. I guess I'm trying to get a sense, to my colleague Madame Demers, that....

Poverty, obviously, is one of the root causes, and that $8 jug of juice. If we have something like co-ops, with some form of ownership through CMHC, which I happen to believe is a good resource, how do we get past the jug of juice? How do we break the poverty even if we can provide the housing in these remote communities that, as I was stunned to hear from Mr. Rickford, cannot be accessed by road?

[Karen Kuzemczak]

I think it's the isolation and the costs of flying these resources to them. It's to cover those costs that everything is so highly priced.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

No, I understand that, but how do we get past that? We can't build roads.

[Darlene Angeconeb]

Yes, that's the big question, I think, for the leadership, for the chiefs, to get together and talk about. I'm sure there are some communities that are involved with mining and forestry. People are getting jobs through those sources, but for a lot of communities--

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Would these jobs be geographically located in these remote areas?

[Darlene Angeconeb]

They're kind of nearby, I guess.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Sorry, your time is up.

We now have Madame Demers for five minutes....

Pardon me, it's Mr. Rickford. I'm sorry; I'm a creature of habit.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you.

Just to fill in a little bit of space very briefly, there are some very promising developments, economic partnerships with first nations communities, that we believe will drive...in that vast region, including the Ring of Fire, where there's an exciting mining project. Farther out, in the most westerly section, there are forestry initiatives that are fully integrated with first nations communities as limited partners or majority owners. That will drive much of the change for improving the energy sustainability of those communities and the access.

It's worth pointing out that I've never been in an isolated community where the people aren't proud of their heritage in that region and the historical life they've led there. Certainly we have just recently introduced a program, in cooperation with the private sector, specifically with the Northern Store, that affects a large part of the communities here to reduce the costs of these foods. It is, and remains, a significant challenge. I know: I've purchased milk at $16 a carton, so I can appreciate that.

I want to talk a little bit more, for the last few minutes here, Karen and Darlene, about something that's very near and dear to me. Just before I was elected, I was working ambitiously with Pikangikum, Mishkeegogamang, and KI, and had spoken, after being elected, with Muskrat Dam about maternal and child health. As you know, there's core funding for those programs. One of the challenges we faced there was that although there was an allotment for education, it was difficult to get programs that trained people to work in the maternal and child health program, which can identify some of the things this committee is preoccupying itself with around homes where there's the potential for breakdown, which may lead to some violence.

Early childhood development is a diploma program that you offer. Of course, I've worked closely with Oshki and Confederation College to develop the precursor courses for people to do maternal and child health and early childhood development. When it comes to governance for women, as my colleague rightly identified, having an opportunity for families to have day care facilities in their communities.... A number of ours do, and they're actually quite nice facilities, I might add. But the training of these folks is key, and it remains one of the biggest challenges.

Despite our investments in first nations training and a variety of other skill sets, and the great work you're doing, we still have some challenges that we're trying to address in these regards. Can you talk about the number of people who are in your program, some of the specific challenges they face, and some of the tools they use to be educated in those isolated and remote communities? I believe this is fundamental. It gives women an opportunity to work in their communities and take up jobs. It also increases the prospects for governance, as that sort of intellectually evolves as an idea.

Can you speak to that, Darlene, specifically to early childhood development?

[Darlene Angeconeb]

That's why we decided to put in place the early childhood program; women wanted to work and they wanted to go to school, but there was no place for them to leave their children. We started that.

Currently there are eight students in that program. They study in their homes, but they can always contact Equay-wuk for support. There's a student support officer who works out of the office. We have an 800 number. They can e-mail or fax us their assignments. It's all based on assignments. They get a training allowance of $700-and-something to do this full time. They can also go part time. We have different intakes in the spring, in the summer, in the winter.

That's how that works. It seems to be working. There are graduates; I don't know how many right now.

Do you know?

[Karen Kuzemczak]

There are actually ten students.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you.

I probably have about a minute left, or less, and I should just take the opportunity to share with my colleagues that in the important work this group is doing, and Oshki college, we have an interesting situation. The reserves are, for many purposes, federal jurisdiction, and we've built buildings that are early childhood development buildings. Some of them are absolutely fabulous. But this lack of training has brought the provincial government in, and they've done the duck test: it looks like a day care centre, acts like a day care centre, but doesn't have the trained people to deliver the “licensable”, if you will; pardon the nomenclature. That is why I've raised that and support the work in these regards.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I realize that I may have slipped a few seconds over.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Okay.

Madam Demers, please.