Status of Women Committee on Jan. 18th, 2011

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon.

Like my colleague Anita, I am horrified. Why is it that we don't hear about these horror stories down east? Why do we speak out against the situation of women in Afghanistan and Iran and demand that their rights be respected, but we pipe down when it comes to the situation of first nations women? Our voices should be even louder.

What can we do? Why is it that cases like that involving Judge Ramsay are not making headlines? Could you explain to me what needs to be done so that these cases get the appropriate attention in the media? I would like these stories to be on page one. I want to talk about theses stories, I want to shout them out. I want women everywhere to deplore this situation out loud.

It is disgraceful to leave things as they are. The fact that the police and the judicial system have not gotten involved is scandalous. How did we get to this? Could you explain that to me? Is it because of ignorance or simply because we do not care, since we don't think that aboriginal women deserve better? Is that the reality we must face? If it is, what is going to happen? We are touring the provinces, and people are sharing things with us. Afterwards, we will return to Ottawa to tell a nice little story and put it on a shelf. But out here, the same things will keep happening to you.

Marilyn, you said that the time for talking has passed and that now is the time for action. I agree with you. As I have been saying from the beginning, the objective of this tour is not to make decisions and establish positions for you once we are back in Ottawa. We would like you to give us the tools we need to enable you to establish your own position. Currently, we are trying very hard to do things properly. Please, help us.

As a woman, I am angry and hurt.

Could one of you three answer?

[Marilyn George]

Forgive me, but it's a very emotional topic.

I don't have an answer as to why this hasn't been heard. But now is the time, which is why I sit here as a first nation woman, to be a voice for all of my sisters that the violence has to stop.

I have heard that this exists back east too. I've read reports. It's always done in secret. It's kind of like, “We can't put this on record. We can't speak about this. It's for your eyes only to see.” This was just over a couple of years ago that I read this, and I asked myself, “Why? Why can't it be voiced out there?”

So I sit here in hope that our voice will be heard loud and clear as first nation women. I speak for my daughter, my cousins. I speak for those I've lost in my past due to suicide because of domestic violence and other assaults that have happened to many of our women in our communities.

There are no easy answers right now, but I know that this action has to be taken now. Change has to happen. This stuff should not be happening in our communities in this day and age. Making those connections outside of first nations communities, making those connections with the RCMP detachment to make better relationships--that also has to be done with women. We need women speaking to women. We need aboriginal women speaking to each other. We need education for our women on what domestic violence is, and sexual assault--everything. I grew up with violence around me, thinking that it was just a normal thing. But when I became a woman myself, I realized that it was not normal.

So I want this to stop.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We have about a minute left. Does anyone want to add something to that?

Asia.

[Asia Czapska]

Maybe this is more of a question or a thought for women in Parliament, but what do you need to be able to act? It feels like there are so many recommendations, but I would ask you, what will make government act? What are the barriers that are in your way or in the way of taking on some of these things?

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

I think that we need to break the silence. We need to put an end to it. You must give us all the information you have gathered, so that it can be published. Social networks that exist today can help disseminate that information. People need to know the identity of the men involved and what they are doing to young women and girls. Canadians have the right to know these things.

What do you think, Tracy?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry, we're out of time.

Now we have Ms. Nina Grewal for the Conservatives. Nina, you have seven minutes, as does everyone else.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for appearing today in front of our committee and for sharing their insights. My heart goes out to you. These are very heart-rending stories.

Currently we're looking into violence against aboriginal women, and it does seem we also could be looking at violence against immigrant communities. Unfortunately, these are very complicated problems that we are facing these days.

I understand that part of the problem we have in dealing with this is a lack of national data. Do you agree with that in terms of violence against women? Is there any way we could be helping law enforcement agencies with the data or something like that? Do you have any thoughts on that?

[Tracy Porteous]

We actually are experiencing a problem with data collection here in B.C. I don't know if that's an issue across the rest of the country.

We have been told that B.C. police have only about a 30% compliance rate in providing statistics to Statistics Canada in terms of crimes committed...in cases as they proceed through the system. B.C. is a little bit different, because the police investigate and the crown lays the charge. Police don't have control over the crown laying the charge, so there's some kind of complication that happens here.

Also, the police have just switched over to a new investigative system that also collects data. It's called PRIME. As far as we can tell, it's very difficult to pull numbers from that, and it should be easy. The Vancouver police have found a way of changing some of the technical foundations of PRIME to allow them to use it for statistical gathering purposes so they can submit that. I mean, we can't really develop proper social policy unless we know if the things we put in place are working or not.

When we have gone forward and asked for information from crowns, from police, and from police services here in the province, we have been told that the information is not available. It's mind-boggling to us that we can have our criminal justice branch say they're sorry, but they can't tell us the difference between how cases of violence against women proceed through the courts now as compared to before they changed their policy, because the data from before they changed their policy is all gone.

Now, I appreciate that it's a provincial issue, but on the federal perspective, I think a lot of oversight and accountability can be brought to the RCMP by asking them to account to a committee or an office. We don't have a national office responsible for violence against women overall or violence against aboriginal women. I agree with what's been said about the need to support the Native Women's Association of Canada and the work they're doing, but I think a lot can be done immediately by asking for accountability from the RCMP.

For example, just recently I asked them for numbers of women being arrested here in the province of B.C., just for the first six months of 2010. I was staggered by the numbers. It would be interesting to ask for those numbers across the country, because I think this is one big difference that can be made. If you arrest a woman who has been a victim of violence for the last 15 years, she'll never call the police again. She'll never reach out, so as she goes forward, her life and her children's lives are at much greater risk if the police make a mistake the first time she reaches out or somebody calls the police. So a huge difference you could make immediately is looking to the RCMP to be more accountable.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Do you have any thoughts on what the main root cause is of all of this, of what's happening? These are really heart-wrenching stories. Do you have any thoughts on what the main root cause is of all of this?

[Tracy Porteous]

It's a good question.

[Asia Czapska]

Something we've all talked about is probably the immense impact of colonial repression. I think if you look at the situation of indigenous girls and women in Australia, you'll see very similar situations. You'll see the over-criminalization. You'll see a majority of women and girls in prisons being indigenous. You'll see a staggering amount of violence. You'll see police failure. I think some of the things we've spoken about....

But on your first question, I know that the Native Women's Association of Canada will speak to you about data and data collection, if they haven't already, and what's happening with Sisters in Spirit. Obviously, they need to be supported to continue to collect data on missing and murdered women and girls.

More specifically, as far as statistics go in the RCMP, let's say, it's very hard to get numbers. For example, people think that there are laws against sexual exploitation in Canada and that those laws are enforced, and that's just not true. When it comes to men buying girls and boys for sexual exploitation, those men are not prosecuted very often, and they're not even charged very often.

It's very hard for us to get those numbers on how many men are charged because, for example, sexual exploitation is not separated specifically. That section of the Criminal Code, subsection 212(4), is not separately segregated by the police. It's just put by the police into “sexual assault--other” or “sexual offences--other”, so we actually can't even tell you how many men are charged with sexually exploiting children and youth in Canada right now. That number would be very useful for us, to be able to say, well, you know, it's ten men per province, and one or two are found guilty every year....

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Madam Chair, do I have some more time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry, Nina, we just ran out.

Now it's Ms. Davies for the NDP.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

First of all, thank you very much for coming today. I know it's hard to have a discussion and answer these huge questions when you have seven minutes or ten minutes, but hopefully we can have some discussion.

Based on what you've said, I wanted to get at the idea that the lack of information is an issue. I know that when Hedy and I were on another committee looking at the issue of the sex trade as it pertained to adults and not children, it was very difficult for us to even get information about what was going on in terms of the sex trade, who was being arrested for what, what violence there was, and how that was being reported. So I do think that's an issue, and I do agree that better information-gathering systems are really important.

I think what's underlying this--and Madam Demers asked this big question--is that we're in this culture of denial. When I think about a culture of denial, it is not so much from a community point of view, because I do think there is a lot of information out there. The cases you've spoken about were very explosive cases that hit the media for days if not weeks, but then they disappeared. So the culture of denial is more among police or different ministries or governments themselves.

I know back in 1999 when I first started raising the missing women issue in Ottawa, I met with the Minister of Justice, who is a very decent guy, and he actually didn't know about the missing women, the biggest case in Canada. So that's in response to your question about why it didn't hit back east or somewhere.

I do think this issue of denial is a huge part of what we're dealing with here. I just wonder, to throw that out there, how we deal with that. How do we get past these individual situations, whether we're talking about the Pickton trial...and then everything just goes back to what it was? To me it's very much about this being a systemic issue and trying to focus attention on that.

I just want to give you some opportunity to respond to the idea of how we draw attention to these systemic issues so we can get out of this culture of denial.

[Tracy Porteous]

I very much appreciate the question, and I think we also need to proceed with great caution. What I've heard from my friend Marilyn and other aboriginal women is that you can't just go into a community and start talking about violence and then leave. Expecting women to speak up and disclose what's happened to them can actually create a dangerous situation for them. My friend Marilyn recommended to you that one thing she thought was important would be services run for aboriginal women by aboriginal women in every aboriginal community in the province--or, from your perspective, in the country.

I think we need to think very carefully about putting some of those supports in place before we expect women to talk, because there needs to be some level of safety and some oversight in a community, some safe place, some initiative where there's support and building and communities. One of the federal initiatives that's going on right now, which I very much support, is the building of community safety plans in aboriginal communities. In addition, it's not just about building a plan or a protocol. There has to be some support in an ongoing way. There has to be some advocacy.

I just want to echo what Marilyn has suggested to you, because more than anything else, if you could embed advocates for women by women in communities, I think that would go a huge long way to helping women find their voice.

I think in the mainstream non-aboriginal communities that's probably how non-aboriginal women found their voice: through the proliferation of anti-violence services, of feminist voices in communities throughout the province. Now, obviously that hasn't ended violence, and every community isn't the same in terms of having these services, but one of the things we've been saying to the Province of B.C., because they fund these provincial services, is that they need to fund services in aboriginal communities for aboriginal women. They have funded a few, but not nearly enough. We believe very strongly in the recommendation by Marilyn that doing that would make a huge difference in terms of opening up the denial but at the same time doing so in a way that's safe for women.

[Asia Czapska]

If I can take a moment, I'll say that I'm completely and strongly in agreement with that, and ditto--the same--for girls and for aboriginal girls: there need to be specific advocates for young women, for aboriginal young women.

As far as denial goes, I think one thing would help. Sometimes we write reports to the United Nations about this situation of homeless girls in Canada--about how there is homelessness of girls in Canada--and one of the things that happens is that when Canada goes before the UN, it prepares reports, as you know, for different covenant committees, and I think there's a lot of denial in those reports. One of the first things would be....

Some countries, when they're preparing reports to the United Nations, approach preparing those reports by saying, “These are our challenges, this is where we have problems, and we have not done this and this”. They say, “Women and girls are not succeeding in these areas and this is what we're going to do about it”. When Canada goes to those UN committees and reports, I think it hides as much as it can and denies as much as it can about what is happening. Those reports are not very useful.

I think one of the things would be that those departments that prepare those reports need to start being honest about what's going on in Canada. They need to start looking at those UN consultations or presentations before different committees as moments to actually work on recommendations, rather than just to defend how amazingly forward Canada is on human rights. I think they need to actually say, “Okay, we have problems, and this is where we need to work on those things”.

And once again, a body of accountability would be useful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

That's it.

I want to thank the committee. We don't have time for a second round. We have had to have very short panels because we've had so many people who want to present that we've had to cut our panels to size. Therefore, we have one round at this panel.

I want to thank Tracy, Marilyn, and Asia for coming.

I know that it has taken a lot of time, Marilyn.

Thank you for being brave enough to share with us your pain.

I think we will suspend now until we get to the next round and the next panel. We'll suspend for two minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'd like to call this session to order.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Standing Committee on the Status of Women is studying violence against aboriginal women, and we are travelling across Canada to do so.

There was a motion that was adopted unanimously by the committee to study this issue and to travel across the country and meet with aboriginal communities and other groups that are involved in the issue so that they could tell us about the extent of violence against aboriginal women, the types of violence, the root causes of that violence, and of course the solutions to what is an ongoing problem. Obviously, despite their best efforts, governments in the past, it seems, have not been able to deal with the situation. So we need to be able to get from you a lot of information and concrete solutions so that when we write our report we will be able to at least, as some people have told us, stop studying the issue to death and get on with finding solutions.

Normally, as you know, these are public meetings, so they are being taped. There can be media here. Media are allowed to come in. I just want to point out that representatives of the consulate general of the United States are here as observers. They're very interested in the issue, and they're in the audience today listening. I also want to welcome them here to listen to the issue.

Today we have representatives of Battered Women's Support Services, Vancouver Rape Relief and Women's Shelter, Women Against Violence Against Women, and the YWCA of Vancouver.

Normally we give you five minutes each to present. I'll give you two-minute and one-minute indicators so that you know you'll have to start wrapping it up. You don't have to say everything in your presentation, because there will be, hopefully, a couple of rounds of questions in which you'll be able to flesh out some of the other things you want to say and actually be specific about them.

I'm going to begin with Battered Women's Support Services, from which we have Lisa Yellow-Quill, co-manager of the aboriginal women's program.

Lisa, you have five minutes.

[Lisa Yellow-Quill, Co-manager, Aboriginal Women's Program, Battered Women's Support Services]

I timed this, and it's actually six minutes. Is that okay?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We'll try to get you six minutes. We can play with that. We're not rigid, but we don't want to go to seven or eight or nine.

[Lisa Yellow-Quill]

Hello. They call me Blue Thunderbird Woman, Strong Medicine Woman Standing. Nekaway, with Cree, Dakota, and Anishinabe blood—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Excuse me, Lisa. Can you just make sure that you have the microphone positioned so that we can hear you?

[Lisa Yellow-Quill]

Is that good? Everybody can hear me?

As I was saying, my name's Blue Thunderbird Woman, Strong Medicine Woman Standing, from Long Plains, Manitoba, Pizhew Dodem. My colonial name is Lisa Yellow-Quill, and I'm the aboriginal women's program co-manager for Battered Women's Support Services.

Battered Women's Support Services is a feminist non-profit organization that employs women from around the world, reflecting our values of balance, inclusivity, and wholeness. We have been in existence for 32 years providing education, advocacy, and support services, including system advocacy and law reform to women experiencing violence. Our priority is to end violence against women.

I'll be speaking to the root causes of violence against women, which have resulted in more than 500 murdered and missing aboriginal women across Turtle Island, together with the need for social and political accountability for the healing of women, their families, and their communities. This oration is a concerted position Battered Women's Support Services has taken to stand with our sisters who speak today and who have spoken before us across the provinces. Our position is strict. We believe inaction maintains the status quo of violence against women, so we want action.

I'm sorry, I'm a little dry now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Relax, Lisa, that's okay. You don't have to rush.

[Lisa Yellow-Quill]

I asked Creator and the grandmothers to come to speak through me so that these words I speak would be felt to the core of your being and reverberate to the cores of those once in authority to take seriously the issue of violence against aboriginal women.

We at Battered Women's Support Services acknowledge that we are on unceded territory, Coast Salish territory, and we ask the grandmothers to bless the work we're doing today with the courage, the clarity, and the words that will lead to actions to end violence against aboriginal women.

We know that continued state research on aboriginal women without action is further causing violence in our lives. We further acknowledge that by participating in this research initiative delivered by Status of Women Canada, we could possibly be implicated as co-conspirators or perpetrators in the ongoing objectification and co-optation of aboriginal women and their experiences for financial gain and political masturbation if this research results in mere band-aid solutions.

We know that continued research initiatives without action are also false promises. There is a wealth of research material from government and academia to grassroots front-line workers that has provided documentation naming the root causes and various forms of violence against aboriginal women. There are imperialism, patriarchy, colonization, and now globalization.

In Vancouver, women demonstrate the enormity of this issue by raising consciousness via the Battered Women's Support Services' initiative, “The Violence Stops Here” campaign, which is training developed to invite men's accountability in ending violence against women, the Walk4Justice, the downtown east side smudge ceremony, and the February 14 Women's Memorial March, which promote individual and community healing, to name a few.

At a national level, in 1996 there was the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples, which gave a whole account in volumes of root causes resulting in violence against aboriginal women. The report by Amnesty International called “Stolen Sisters:...Discrimination and Violence Against Indigenous Women in Canada” is another. In Black Eyes All of the Time Anne McGillivray and Brenda Comaskey address root causes and provide recommendations in a clear and concise way on issues of intimate violence, aboriginal women, and the justice system.

As a result, we know the Canadian state is familiar with the issues relating to violence against aboriginal women and, as it is, the patriarchal state that initiates, maintains, and perpetuates....

I need a glass of water. I can't even drink my water.