Status of Women Committee on Jan. 20th, 2011

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

Sandra, would you talk a little bit more? You said that you're born into systemic racism. I'm assuming you're saying that by virtue of being an aboriginal person, you're born into a system that will discriminate against you. Is that what you...?

[Sandra Lockhart]

That's exactly what I'm saying.

I went through the whole system of education, foster care, and residential school, and what I learned to do through all of that to survive emotionally and feel some kind of dignity was to internalize that racism. I hated being aboriginal. I was ashamed of aboriginal people. I missed all the teachings from my grandmother. Thank goodness there's a spiritual way you can get all the teachings. So although we're changing some of that, we're still not changing the bigger system.

While I agree with my sister here, Lyda, who talks about needing community healing, I also think service providers need the same healing. They're born into the same system. There's this idea that they're appointed to fix us, but if they're all acknowledging that aboriginal people are still under a colonial, oppressive system, then they're part of it. They're either colonized or the colonizer.

I think that in order to have really effective programs there needs to be a joint healing process for service providers and communities. Otherwise you're just going to perpetuate a different name for the same systemic oppression.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Now I'm going to go to Madame Demers from the Bloc Québécois. Go ahead, Nicole.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much for being here with us today.

This group of witnesses is very different from the previous one. You have shown us the other side of the coin. The previous group had positive, laudatory things to say, said that things were going well and that everything was fine. What you have set out for us looks like the other side of the coin. This is testimony from people who are grappling with these problems within the communities. That is reality.

Sandra, you said that women did not want to become dependent on established programs because that did not solve the issue. I found that very touching. Even if those programs are set up by well-intentioned people, they don't live the problems and can't really solve them. These programs are indeed not set up nor offered by aboriginal women, whereas they should be. As you said so well, when you are not in a given situation, you don't know it from the inside, you don't live it. The solution has to come from you and you must solve these problems within your communities. We are not the ones who are going to decide in your stead how to solve them.

We are here to attempt to find ways to put an end to this violence. Give us the means to help you; suggest solutions to us. We are here to listen to you. You said it very well: this has to come from you. Please, share your ideas with us.

[Sandra Lockhart]

I just want to clarify very quickly that there are women who appreciate the programs.

Let's talk about identity. Sharon McIvor went and tried to do that, and said “You can't be declaring who we are. Hear us.” She had everything there, and the government only went so far.

So government has a role. The federal government has to take the role seriously and implement the treaty agreements we have. They have to start supporting the Assembly of First Nations instead of cutting funding when something AFN does might offend them.

So that's what I'm talking about, ethical funding. The funding that you do provide has to be directed by the community: what do we need, for how long? I like what I heard earlier this morning about programs that are stratified rather than one blanket fits all. There are certain women...and I'm grateful, because I was one of those women who were on the street, living like that, and I went through a stratified recovery. In Edmonton there are programs like that, but we don't have them in the north. We actually have one treatment centre. Northern people have been crying forever that not everybody's alcoholic. Everybody's having other trauma issues. We don't have services like that. Communities need to tell us what it is we want.

I like what my sister Arlene said, that we need to be including the leadership. We have a government; the public government is also the aboriginal government. So they need to be acknowledged for that. The president for the NWTalso said to give us some ethical funding, not just “Oh, we're doing our part; here, you can have it.”

We have to start recognizing the systemic violence, and until the federal government does a review of the policies that are in place that oppress or assimilate us, the rest of us have our hands tied. I think that needs to be acknowledged, and they need to partner with a whole bunch of people in order to really clean that up.

Merci.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

You talked about the Sisters in Spirit. Can you tell us what you would like to see in that regard?

[Sandra Lockhart]

I'd like to see that go back to those who created it, and the funding done for it, and then have a lot more partnerships, with the national Native Women's Association leading that.

I know here in the north that PSAC partners. I think we could develop that much more. Because a lot of funding isn't staying with us. The way I understand it--and please forgive me if I don't have the correct understanding--there isn't much funding coming to the north, and a lot is going to the police. I think the police need to be culturally oriented too. I think in the north we do work fairly well with the police, but there are a lot of things missing and we have to do a lot more orientation with service providers again.

Service providers, Sisters in Spirit, that needs to go back to the Native Women's Association and they need to have and own the database, because that's OCAP, those are research principles--ownership, all that stuff. We have to own what belongs to us. And if you want to help us to change, then recognize our nationhood. Fundamentally, that is what has to be done. We're enshrined in the Constitution, but there's a lot of lip service. Canada has to be re-educated on the history of Canada, because Canadians are not recognizing us as full nations within Canada. I hear a lot, and I did a lot of training with PSAC, did a lot of education, because I had to decolonize, and I still have to. Any time aboriginal people get back the sense of who they are and get recognized for their nationhood, people start screaming that it's reverse racism. Reverse racism is not real; that's just people of privilege having to give up a little bit and share. That's all that is.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

What do you think, Ms. Villeneuve?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Madame Villeneuve, you have 30 seconds to respond to what Madame Demers has been talking about.

[Therese Villeneuve]

I want to jump on the impact of residential school that I talked about, because I am a product of residential school. I was in there for ten years, from the time I was seven years old till I got married. I remember the nun telling me, “Don't forget, you're getting married for one reason and one reason only, and that's to procreate. You do exactly what your husband wants you to do.” When I got married, that was all I knew.

That's why I said we've lost our culture completely, through the residential school era. That's why I always argue for an on-the-land program. Now, when I go on the land, that's where my spirituality is, that's where everything is for me. It's not when I go into counselling or I go to meetings or anywhere; it's on the land. I think that's where we have to go back to, after the residential school trauma that we've experienced.

I know that a lot of my friends went through the same thing. They were forced to get married right from the residential schools. They didn't even know they were getting married until the nuns told them the night before they were getting married the next morning at six o'clock.

These are the things I lived through. So if you want a witness, I am the witness for that. That's how I want to respond on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much for sharing that with us.

Now I'm going to go to Mrs. Nina Grewal for the Conservatives.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, ladies, for your time.

Violence against women is certainly a very serious issue, and serious attention needs to be given to it. Our government considers ending violence against aboriginal women a top priority. We're dealing with an issue, however, that is a shared responsibility of all levels of government, whether the police, the justice system, aboriginal peoples, or civil society. Our committee previously heard about the need to address the issue of jurisdiction and whose responsibility it was to provide services.

It is important that the federal government articulate a vision for all Canadians, whether they are aboriginals or immigrants. We need some guiding principles to aid all players in dealing with this terrible situation and the problems we are facing today. What suggestions can you offer for helping our government to deal with violence against aboriginal women? Could each of you please give your suggestions?

[Sandra Lockhart]

I really struggle, because you talk about violence against aboriginal women—and I just did a piece about something in Time magazine on this—and you talk about women as if we're separate from the rest of the community, which makes it really hard. If you hurt me, you're going to hurt my child, you're going to hurt my husband, you're going to hurt my community, and you're going to hurt my nation. So I would like to see a more holistic principle in anything you're going to do.

You need to start looking at how you are preventing us from having our nationhood. You don't settle our land claims. The current system is dividing up our land and dividing up everything, because you're not recognizing us as a full nation. Every nation needs its land.

I'm going to say it again, and I'll say it until the day I die: I'm in my homeland and yet I'm studied to death as an aboriginal person, and now as an aboriginal woman, and yet I'm the least understood.

I'm going through decolonization, and I hurt. I can name what's going on, and when we come to public things like this and name it, we still have to live in it and then walk away. And Canada still doesn't want, for whatever reason, to really rectify the wrong that was done within our treaty, within the agreements the Inuit and Métis have. That has to be recognized and re-education has to happen, and the principle has to be that we're a holistic people who still very much live with our land and want coexistence.

I'm a nurse who recognizes that. I'm a traditionalist with the medicine. I'm very fortunate to be able to offer a holistic approach to people who want to make their own choices.

So we're not saying that there aren't good things. There are several good things that we have within Canada with each other, but we have to be recognized as a nation. So please recognize us as a holistic nation and have a holistic approach.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Do any of you want to share your thoughts?

[Arlene Hache]

I want to talk just briefly about an experience we had where we developed, or are in a partnership around, a trauma recovery program for northern women who have experienced violence.

The women who came to that program really struggled with a European approach to therapy. I find this a constant challenge, in that northern people, Inuit and first nations people across the country, always have to fit their recovery or experience into a European approach that doesn't work.

So at the end of the day, the Government of the Northwest Territories withdrew funding for that program because in their view it didn't work. They didn't take the next step to recognize the great discoveries we had made and to say “Let's move on from there”.

The other brief challenge I'll just highlight is that I find federally and territorially when the government announces funding, there are two problems. One is funding is always announced in the south. As you know, all the centres of excellence of anything are located in the south; but the problems are in the north, and there's never a centre of excellence in the north. We don't have the research resources to demonstrate that we do have solutions that work. At least if you look in Vancouver in Sheway, Sheway is touted as being great, good practice, with the best service going, and I agree. We do the same thing here, but it's looked at like we're crazy, off-centre, not quite right, totally disorganized, and we shouldn't get funded. It's because we don't have the connection to the research or the longitudinal resources to say we do fantastic work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We have about a minute and a half. Does anyone else want to...? Lyda?

[Lyda Fuller]

I'll just throw in how important it is for discourse across the three northern territories. Arlene talks about research. We, as women's organizations across the territories, have done work on the causes of homelessness for women. It led to the development of on-the-ground services like the homeless shelter for women in Iqaluit. We can do great things--I would like to say that--but we need to be able to talk to our counterparts across the north, and the distances are great. There's not much opportunity to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Therese.

[Therese Villeneuve]

I have three recommendations I'd like to bring forth. The federal justice department should be working with the communities on alternative programs. We all know that jails do not work, so don't build any more. Traditional programs could be piloted. There should be funding available for the NAWS III, because at NAWS II, as we all know, aboriginal women were empowered and realized it was possible for them, as a group, to come together and develop their own solutions to the problems facing aboriginal women, not only here in the Northwest Territories but across Canada.

I would also like to support Sandra in requesting that funding be reinstated for Sisters in Spirit, because the Native Women's Association of the NWT also worked with Sisters in Spirit, and we know that we need the data research done in the Northwest Territories. Our stats are not very accurate due to a lack of data here in the Northwest Territories.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

I will now go to Mr. Bevington for the NDP.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Once again, thanks to everyone for being here and sharing your wisdom with us and with this committee. I would be remiss not to say that I'm substituting for our critic, Irene Mathyssen, who was unable to be here.

Having grown up in a medium-sized northern community, I've seen the progression, and I agree very much with Lyda. My experience has been that the improvement in housing has been a very important part of any community development. I saw in my community that as housing improved, the situation improved. We also had champions. Sister Sutherland was a champion for women's shelters and for the family. That in a smaller community really provides a lot.... Larger communities might have more agencies and boards.

One other thing I want to mention in terms of smaller communities is inter-agency groups. We had a very successful inter-agency group that brought together not only the social groups but the schools, the RCMP, and the bands once a month to speak to these issues in the community. They tried to take a holistic approach to what they were doing with their funds and their direction in dealing with social issues of all kinds. Sometimes you have more resources in a medium-sized community that may be able to be accessed through that medium.

I don't have the experience in a small community like you have, Therese, in Fort Resolution. I'd really like you to talk about a small community, how these issues have evolved over your lifetime, what successful directions you can take, and what hasn't worked in your small community.

[Therese Villeneuve]

I come from a community where the population is about 400, mainly aboriginal--90%, I think. We have abuse problems. It's not only alcohol, but there are hard drugs out there. I think the change I see is that in my young days growing up I didn't see alcohol. I didn't know what alcohol was until I was a teenager. Then it became worse later on. Now there is much more addiction.

Any time you have those problems associated with residential school impacts and the rest of it, people react in a different way. Any time a person drinks, they don't act like they do when they're sober. Some of these people are the best people when they're sober, but when they're drinking they have different problems.

My worry is for the younger generation nowadays, because they're growing up witnessing all this violence. There are also all the other distractions in their lives. Whether it's TV or all these games they're playing, there's nothing but violence out there. You see it. You see it on TV. Some people see it in their homes. Some people see it in their communities. That's what they're growing up with.

I'm really worried about the future generations. At least in my young days I didn't see alcohol or any of that abuse. Some of the young generation who are growing up now can't say that, because alcohol is all over. It's not just in my community. So they can't even compare the good times to how it is now. That's my worry, especially in a small community where they don't have any resources to go any place.

In the summertime, when I go to Ottawa and see sessions there, I think it would be great for young people to witness what there is out there. There are good things out there too, but there's no funding for the youth to get out of their community at all, except for games. There's life besides sports too.

That's where my worry is for the younger generation, future generations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have one minute.

[Sandra Lockhart]

I'm a member of the Lutselk'e treaty first nation. When I lived in the community and my father-in-law Morris Lockhart was still with us, he used to say, about the way our youth were getting educated, that they looked out the window and looked at the land.

When I first moved there--we went through many hurts in our colonization, so we learned to categorize people--some people said you're not from here, blah, blah, blah, and of course that would hurt, right? But then there was this one elder, who's no longer with us, Annie Calflick, who used to say to me, “You know, you're not from here.” We know, as human beings, when it's safe to respond, so I said, “What do you mean when you say that? Because it's hurtful.” She said, “Well, I can tell by the way you walk with the land that you're not used to it. That relationship needs to be built. Then you'll move with the land here.”

That type of teaching is not happening, is not recognized in our schools. My brother-in-law is a cultural worker; it's not built in across Canada as mandatory to recognize aboriginal cultures and how they see that with their own particular area. It's nice that we have that, and it's kind of a nice thing that we do, but it's not mandatory, and I think that needs to happen. We go out a lot on the land, as I think a lot of the communities do, but it's not recognized the way that social studies is recognized. In our on-the-land healing programs, as Therese has said, it's not recognized that you're seeing a therapist.

It doesn't mean that a therapist can't come, but our traditional healers--I get a lot of calls at my place of employment, because I'm an aboriginal wellness coordinator--struggle with getting what they need. There's a lot of discrimination in that health care policy. They'll say, “Sandra, if you need to see a neurologist, we'll ship you to Edmonton, no problem. We'll get it done. You can see a traditional healer under non-insured health benefits, but you have to do it within your community, in your own province of territory. We will not fund you to go outside.”

What they are saying, unknowingly maybe, is that there's a lot of bias and prejudice in that policy. It assumes that there was never any colonial practice here to kill the culture. It assumes that all of the traditions we have here know every practice. They don't. We have to go seek our traditional healing approaches in other provinces. We don't have the funds and means to do it, because it is very expensive.

Again, it goes back to looking at the bigger policy picture: Do you recognize us? Does Canada recognize that it coexists with another nation inside of Canada? Until that's acknowledged, the rest is just lip service.