Evidence of meeting #56 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was welfare.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
February 15th, 2011 / 12:20 p.m.
Director General, Social Policy and Programs Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The vast majority is from children in care?
12:20 p.m.
Director General, Social Policy and Programs Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
In terms of our costs, a lot of what has driven them up to where we are now is maintenance costs. It depends on provincial rates, and those rates have gone up in terms of per diems, so that is a cost driver.
I don't know if Corinne has additional information. I think she does in terms of the numbers, and she can provide that to finish the answer.
12:20 p.m.
Corinne Baggley Senior Policy Analyst, Social Programs Reform Directorate, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Are you looking at it in terms of the numbers of children in care?
12:20 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Social Programs Reform Directorate, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
For INAC—
12:20 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Social Programs Reform Directorate, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Okay.
In terms of the number of children in care, as of March 2010 we have around 8,000 in care. Early results are showing that the number is decreasing as a result of implementing the enhanced prevention focused approach.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
12:20 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Social Programs Reform Directorate, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Yes, in INAC-funded care.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mesdames, thank you for being here this morning.
Eight thousand children are in foster families. They are not in foster families in the aboriginal communities, but outside the aboriginal communities, and those families are funded by the Department of Indian Affairs. Is that correct?
12:20 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Social Programs Reform Directorate, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
When we say “children in care”, there are a variety of care options that are available to the agency, ranging from institutional care to foster care to kinship care.
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
What we perceived during our tour—and I've toured across Canada from eastern Canada to the Northwest Territories—is that most of the time children are not placed in kinship care with community children or parents, but rather outside the community. At that point, people receive a lot of money from the provincial government to take care of the children. They receive up to $2,500 a month to take care of the children, or of one child, because the mother is poor. It's not that she's a bad mother or that she doesn't love her child, but she's poor and that's why she can't take care of her child. Consequently, because the mother is poor, the child is taken and removed from the family environment and sent to a foster family. Up to $2,500 a month is given to that person, who is a white person, who does not teach the child aboriginal traditions or values, to take care of a child who would be better off with his or her mother and to whom we would give $2,500.
Do you mean to tell me that this is the new way of doing things and that's it's better this way? In 20 years, we're going to wind up with the same problem as the residential schools problem. Are you telling me that it's better to do it this way?
12:20 p.m.
Director General, Social Policy and Programs Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I'm not sure of all the figures of where children are placed. Placement options are the jurisdiction of the child and family services agencies and the provinces. I would have to get back to you in terms of what numbers we might have in terms of the rates are that are paid. It's the provinces that run this with the agencies. We don't necessarily have the information at our disposal on which cases are being managed and what the costs of those cases are.
12:25 p.m.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
What kind of follow-up are you doing to ensure that the families that take in children from the aboriginal communities have some notion of aboriginal culture? How do you ensure the children receive the upbringing they need in order to be sure that they don't lose their aboriginal values, culture and identity? What follow-up are you doing?
12:25 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Social Programs Reform Directorate, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
We do track the placements of children in the variety of care settings. We are seeing, in those jurisdictions under prevention, an enhanced use of the kinship care option, which means that those children are being placed with family members.
12:25 p.m.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
What follow-up do you do for those who aren't placed with family members? If you do any, can you send us the reports on that follow-up?
12:25 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Social Programs Reform Directorate, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
As Sheilagh mentioned, the decisions around placing children in care are made in accordance with provincial legislation and standards, and provinces are responsible for ensuring that there is compliance with those standards. We do not collect that information.
12:25 p.m.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
You don't know whether the children are treated well. You don't know whether the money that the federal government gives to the provinces is well used or whether the children retain their culture. And it is the money of all Canadian men and women that is being used. Is it being given any old way to just anyone?
12:25 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Social Programs Reform Directorate, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
No, I'm not saying that. We do have accountability in place. We have tripartite accountability and frameworks in place for prevention. We do track results. We do track outcomes. We are working on building an information management system to do that more consistently and to also track the same information that provinces are tracking. Cultural placements are one of those indicators.
12:25 p.m.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
So I would like to have those reports, please.
Can you send them to the committee?
