Status of Women Committee on March 1st, 2011

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm very glad to see both ministers here today. We waited a very long time to have a chance to talk to you.

I'd like to start with you, Minister Ambrose. In 1995 when the Canadian Advisory Council on the Status of Women was cancelled, Status of Women Canada introduced the policy research fund. It was supposed to facilitate research. It's very clear that research is fundamental if we're going to understand what's going on in terms of women.

Sisters in Spirit established a database, and that database became integral to government's understanding the depth of violence faced by aboriginal women, and it compelled people to finally take action. The problem is that under the new situation in Status of Women Canada, in 2006 the research and advocacy portion was cancelled, and Sisters in Spirit can no longer access research dollars. In other words, that important database that has begun the progress we hope to eventually make is in jeopardy. That concerns me very much.

How will we preserve this database? How will we make sure the information is there so that Sisters in Spirit can continue to support families and communities and women at risk? If it's not there, important work is lost.

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

I'll ask Kevin Jones to address that. The RCMP will be dealing with the database issue.

I will just say that the database was incredibly important, and of course Sisters in Spirit is able to continue that work. That is a project of NWAC. The Native Women's Association of Canada has been incredibly well supported by this government, not only in funding from various departments across the government...to just this year, I think, resulting in almost $10 million in support from different government departments.

On top of that, as you know, we in the Status of Women department funded Evidence to Action I, their first project, and Evidence to Action II, last week announced, which will allow them to take that information and the good work they have developed through their database into the communities to partner with law enforcement agencies, social workers, teachers, and a number of service providers in order to address the root causes and come up with prevention strategies for dealing with violence against aboriginal women and girls.

In terms of the database, announced in the action plan for murdered or missing aboriginal women was a database that all law enforcement agencies would be able to access across the country so that this would be a priority for all of us.

I know that the Native Women's Association of Canada has been meeting with the RCMP about integrating their data into the new database, so I'll turn it over to Mr. Kevin Jones to comment on that.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Yes.

Inspector Jones, I have other questions, so just very quickly, will that data be preserved and protected?

[Insp Kevin Jones, Acting Director General, National Aboriginal Policing Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

The RCMP doesn't have control over whether Sisters in Spirit can preserve and protect their own database. At this point in time we're working with them, hoping that type of information will inform the databases that are being developed within the RCMP. We have the two databases; one will be a law enforcement database, and then we have the national website.

Through our meetings with Sisters in Spirit and NWAC, we're hoping that we'll be able to use that information. Any information that we can receive obviously will help us to be able to effectively deal with this issue that we feel very concerned about.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

Minister Nicholson, one of the things we've discovered in our research and our travels is that violence against aboriginal women isn't perpetuated just in the larger world, in the community; there's also the violence that's perpetuated by government. I'm referring to the report from the correctional investigator, Mr. Howard Sapers. He talks about the fact that aboriginal women make up an inordinate number of those who are in prison, that many of them are mentally ill, that in fact 30% of the women in prison are aboriginal despite the population being about 4% of the Canadian community.

These women have been sexually abused. They're subjected to a management protocol that essentially puts them in isolation. I'm very concerned.

Mr. Sapers' report recommended that there be a deputy commissioner for aboriginal corrections, and recommended very strongly that the management protocol be rescinded.

Now, I hope you're not going to say that this is somebody else's bailiwick, because you're the Minister of Justice. What can you do to guarantee justice for those aboriginal women who are suffering in solitary, who are not receiving treatment?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I appreciate that you're asking me a question with respect to public safety, but in terms of the component and my particular interest and the interest of the Department of Justice, we have administered and continue to support the aboriginal justice strategy. This is coordinated by the Department of Justice, and it works in conjunction with a wide range of other levels of government and aboriginal groups to reduce the rates of victimization, crime, and incarceration among aboriginal people.

It's one of the programs, quite frankly, that I was quite impressed with when I became justice minister, the idea of getting and supporting those individuals who obviously don't want to be incarcerated and want to have an alternative. I was very pleased with that.

In addition, it goes in conjunction with the Department of Justice aboriginal court worker program, to make sure that people who get involved with the criminal justice system are aware of their rights and aware of the help they may be able to get. I mean, a number of programs are administered at the Department of Justice, but I think they work in establishing connections, sensitivity, and making sure that every effort is made to assist those individuals who have unfortunately come in contact with the law.

Again, I have been impressed with the programs. These are over and above the initiatives, announced in the last budget, with respect to missing and murdered aboriginal people. Those programs continue. I think they've had a great success rate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

If we are really very succinct, and people look at me to know that they have so much time left, we can do a quick three-minute round, but I mean a quick three minutes.

We will begin with Ms. Neville, for three minutes.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm finding the time limits here very frustrating.

I want to go back to the $10-million announcement on the missing and murdered women.

Minister, in my mind it has some very serious shortcomings. You know that at the time the Native Women's Association was not consulted. We know that a significant amount of the money goes to institutions that are far removed from aboriginal women. We know that it doesn't address the jurisdictional issues of the RCMP.

In the original budget announcement or throne speech announcement, it appeared that the $10 million was going to aboriginal women. It has been redirected away from women and families and put into other bodies or organizations. Why? How do you account for that?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I hope you don't mind my taking that.

I'm disappointed that you're not pleased and not supportive of the initiatives that have taken place within that $10 million. To say that the money going towards the RCMP initiative that will have comprehensive missing persons data accessible by all police forces, I have to tell you, Madam Neville—

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

In 2013, Minister.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

No, I just want to complete that thought. Our investigation of this very difficult problem points out a number of shortcomings, and one of them was the lack of communications between various law enforcement agencies across this country.

I have to tell you that I, for one, was very pleased to see that initiative with respect to the RCMP to coordinate that activity so that there's instant access. What I have been told is that sometimes these things will become isolated. An individual becomes a victim in one particular community, but the information wasn't being transferred or wasn't accessible by other law enforcement agencies. I appreciate that Mr. Jones is here from the RCMP, and again, I appreciate that Public Safety has a lead in this area, but I, for one, was very, very pleased about that, because what I heard was that this is one of the major challenges in solving these cases: the lack of coordination between law enforcement agencies.

I want to tell you as well that this is a matter that I also have discussed with my provincial counterparts. As you know, the administration of justice and policing, for the most part, is at the provincial level, but again, I was very pleased about their awareness of this and their willingness to undertake that cooperation. So I think it's one of the major components of that $10-million strategy, but again, I hope it gets your support, because this is exactly what I heard was part of the problem in this very difficult area.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Minister, there was no consultation and the women felt duped.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Your time is up, Ms. Neville.

Thank you, Ms. Neville.

Mr. Boughen, for the Conservatives.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Let me add my voice of welcome to my colleagues in welcoming the two ministers to our meeting this afternoon.

I have just one question. First of all, let me acknowledge the work of both ministries. From your reports, it's been a very, very busy year, with a lot of time, energy, and dollars going into the programs you've initiated.

Could you share with the committee what's happening down the trail? If you look forward into 2011, we're into month three of a twelve-month timeframe, of course, and I'm just wondering what kinds of issues and events you are looking at in terms of the two ministries as you continue to work with this committee around issues affecting women. I'll just open it up.

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

Thank you, and thank you for that question.

I do want to just make sure that the issue of consultation is addressed with regard to the Native Women's Association of Canada. I can't underscore enough how well and how diligently and proactively our officials have worked with the Native Women's Association of Canada. They have a very long-standing relationship with them. Before the missing and murdered aboriginal women strategy was announced, Minister Nicholson and I briefed the president of the Native Women's Association of Canada about the components within this particular strategy that involved the RCMP, Public Safety, and community organization funding to work with a number of different women's organizations and aboriginal organizations on prevention strategies.

So this was a very holistic approach, and as I've said, the federal ombudsman for victim services, Sue O'Sullivan, commented after the announcement of the $10-million program for missing and murdered aboriginal women, that this was the kind of initiative--because it included prosecution and prevention strategies--and the kind of breadth of initiative that the government should focus on more.

I think that speaks volumes to the consultation that was done, not only, as Minister Nicholson said, with provincial justice ministers and public safety ministers across the country, but with law enforcement agencies at the municipal, provincial, and federal levels, including the RCMP, about how to tackle this very difficult issue of murdered and missing aboriginal women.

Beyond these, there's the centre for missing persons for police forces across Canada to access. There's also, as Mr. Jones mentioned, a national tip website for missing persons, which is also incredibly important in sharing information across the country with Canadians who may have had a glimpse of someone who is missing. I encourage Canadians to take note of that as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Minister Ambrose.

Now I will move to Monsieur Desnoyers from the Bloc.

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome to both of you.

I listened as you talked about a number of projects and announced several others. For the past few months now, we have been hearing from various groups in different communities across Canada. Whether the topic is education, prevention, health, funding, murders, the abduction of women or the hundreds of unsolved cases, there seems to be a total disregard for what is happening in those cases, both on and off the reserve.

My colleague mentioned the Sisters in Spirit initiative, which produced outstanding work.

Given all the measures you announced, how long do you think it will take to solve the problems of aboriginal women?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Again, I don't think there is a willing disregard on this issue. I think there's a much greater awareness. I notice that a number of the studies go back to the 1990s.

In terms of investigating this problem and assembling the data that points out this terrible problem—

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Another colleague of mine asked whether you had a plan. Would I be right to say that, in 15 years' time, the problems facing aboriginal women will still not be solved, whether they are related to violence or incarceration? Do you think 15 years is acceptable?

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

I think I'd like to say that it wouldn't exist at all today, but it does. Unfortunately, there are root causes of violence in the aboriginal communities that include things like poverty and racism, and this is why it's incredibly important for us to work with organizations, aboriginal organizations, across the country, and to partner with people like the RCMP and Justice Canada, because this has to be a multi-pronged approach. We need prosecution, we need prevention strategies, and we need community organizations to be involved in a culturally sensitive way.

So we are partnering with those aboriginal organizations to make sure we get this right, and as the federal ombudsman for victim services said, this is an excellent initiative that's been put forward by Public Safety and Justice Canada to partner with all the right organizations. It's an important step forward. I think all of us have a commitment to end violence against aboriginal women and girls, and we hope that this kind of awareness and these kinds of programs help to diminish this issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I will go to Ms. Mathyssen for three minutes.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister Ambrose, in your remarks you talked about the investment in the women's program. You indicated it was the highest...I am assuming that is because it's a very important investment in terms of the work of Status of Women Canada. My question is, since it is obviously important, why was $1.4 million taken away from the women's program in the year 2011-12?

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

Sure. That's a reflection of the estimates. It was not reflecting that there was a decrease, but reflecting that there was actually a holdover of that amount of money from the previous year. But we can get you the information for that.

Suzanne may like to comment on that.

[Suzanne Clément, Coordinator, Head of Agency, Office of the Coordinator, Status of Women Canada]

As we've mentioned before in front of this committee, there was an amount of $1 million that had been re-profiled from 2008 into 2010, so that amount is no longer reflected in the main estimates, and there was a reduction in the operating budget for the Minister for Status of Women, given that it was not a stand-alone ministry.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

I'd like to ask another question of you, Minister Ambrose. You've made a number of official speeches, and in those speeches, you've never used the term “gender equality”. That was a term that was used quite extensively before 2006. You use the phrase “the equality between men and women”.

I'm very concerned, because words do matter, and gender equality is key to our understanding of what it is we're trying to achieve. It goes to the notion of unpaid work for women. It goes to the concern about work-life balance, affordable housing, the need for a national child care program and, of course, violence against women.

I am wondering why you would abandon that term. Was there pressure to abandon it? Why would you forego something so key that is at the essence of advancement for women?