Status of Women Committee on April 2nd, 2012

[The Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

You have about three and a half minutes.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

A couple of points have been brought up through this report. Women's earnings have been increasing significantly and steadily over time. Hourly wages have shown a steady increase, with women earning approximately 83¢ to a dollar earned by a man in 2008, an increase from approximately 76¢ in 1988. There has been a lot of talk in this committee about the need to make sure there is more parity in wages, but there does seem to be some progress being made.

What does your organization think of the progress that's being made? Canada is doing comparatively rather well in this area. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

[Geneviève Latour]

I think we have to recognize the progress made. However, we have not yet achieve the equity that we advocate and the feminist approach recognizes. So we have to move ahead, be proactive and ensure there is active offer.

There has to be the will, but there also has to be action, when we talk about parity. In my opinion, that is what we think is important. We have to take action and ensure that girls are part of the solution. When programs or initiatives are decided on, it has to be done in consultation with girls, or women.

It is all very well to recognize the progress made. But it cannot stop there. We have to move ahead toward achieving total parity.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have any further questions.

I'd like to thank both witnesses for being today. I believe this study and their contributions will be rather helpful moving forward.

[The Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Thank you very much. Our witnesses are indeed very poised and have been very gracious.

We'll go to Madame Boutin-Sweet for seven minutes, please.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, ladies.

First, I want to make an editorial comment: I think we are a long way from pay equity for women. But that will be a subject for discussion another day, or even on several other days.

I understood that some of the workshops you organize are for girls and others are for girls and boys together. In general, however, are there a lot of workshops that are just for girls?

[Geneviève Latour]

Those are the only workshops we have as part of our programming, and that is in response to a lack of workshops reserved for girls in the schools. So our members asked us to offer this kind of workshop because there was a gap in the resources available to them.

In the case of the FESFO, we do some activities under what we call self-affirmation. These are workshops addressed specifically, for example, to youth in grades 9 and 10 or in grades 11 and 12. For example, we have talked about the social economy and what it means for women. Various initiatives affect women generally.

However, the members of the federation include both boys and girls, so a majority of the workshops are addressed to both genders.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

You said they could not find these workshops anywhere else. Do you mean other workshops in the schools themselves? I don't really understand this.

[Geneviève Latour]

These workshops have been held for about 20 years. At the time when we were asked to do them, it was to fill a gap that the young people had observed in their classrooms.

When I say these workshops did not exist, I mean they did not exist in French in Ontario. That was the source of the need to create them, and at the same time to have them led by young women.

We often talk about experts who meet with the girls. But they need a space where they feel free, where they can establish an atmosphere of trust that fosters discussion. The facilitators at our workshops are all from the post-secondary level. They have recently been through what girls in secondary school are experiencing. That is what makes our programming perhaps somewhat different.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

How do you go about deciding the programming? You said "by and for girls". What groups meet to decide the subjects, for example?

[Geneviève Latour]

In fact, FESFO's general programming is decided by and for the young people. Jocelyne is a member of the representation council, which guides all of the programming. For the workshops I described to you, they were all first created by girls. They were the ones who decided what they wanted to see on the schedule, the subjects they wanted to discuss. Since then, there have been feedback from the girls and evaluations to ensure that the subjects addressed are still current.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

You made several recommendations. We are talking here about the schools, so this is provincial, but are there ways the federal government can help you fill the gaps? One of the witnesses we heard earlier said that in education, and I imagine she was talking about secondary school in general, the cultural aspect was somewhat limited.

With respect to the consultations, training or programs to reduce sexual harassment, for example, would it be useful for the federal government, in this instance Status of Women Canada, to provide support?

[Geneviève Latour]

Certainly. I think Jocelyne wanted to say, at the end of her presentation, that it is important to recognize the work that women are already doing on the ground. So there are experts already. Women get together and organize among themselves. They have resources. We simply need to recognize them and give them the resources, the tools they need to continue their work. Women have organized, and girls have known what they need, for a long time. We simply have to give them their place and recognize them, and also ensure, when some of them work on behalf of women, that they do not necessarily do so without pay or because they believe in the cause, but because we think it is important and their work is recognized in the government. I think the tools are in place and we just have to use them, or perhaps maximize them.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Some witnesses have also said that women and men work differently. One witness who spoke earlier talked about the equivalent of a cooperative.

Do you think that developing cooperative movements might be a good way of integrating women into the work world?

[Geneviève Latour]

This is one of the subjects we emphasized last year, in our consultations. It is often easy to get involved in the cooperative movement. I think that in Franco-Ontarians' situation, that movement is more attractive and more accessible. But each girl is different. They all have their own interests. I think we have to determine what meets their specific needs.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Do you think that Franco-Ontarian girls and girls in the rest of Canada are in different situations?

[Geneviève Latour]

I do not think that every initiative necessarily has to be translated, but I think it must be culturally appropriate for young francophones. Of course, sexism has no borders or cultures. Sexism is sexism. But in the case of the Franco-Ontarian community, we are talking about a rural minority community, and there may be differences there. Yes, the needs are different.

When it comes to equity, it means ensuring that each person has what they need. It has to be fair, not just equal to what is offered to the other side, in this case the anglophone population.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

In your workshops, or your placements, have you noticed other cultural barriers, for example relating to minority cultural groups, women with disabilities or the first nations?

[Geneviève Latour]

As I have already spoken a lot, I am going to let Jocelyne answer that question.

[Jocelyne Michelle Coulibaly]

In the activities for girls that I have attended, there were no real barriers. Among ourselves, girls forget our differences. We try to bring something we have in common, to try to solve the problem. So there are no real barriers in that regard.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

So some barriers fall when you are together as girls, but what happens when the boys are present?

[The Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

I'm sorry, we're at the end. Perhaps we'll have a moment or two at the end of the session to get in some final words.

Madam Bateman, you have seven minutes, please.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much for being here.

You're in a unique position because you're following two extraordinary women who are in a different age bracket from you and have accomplished a great deal in perhaps a less friendly world, because things have in fact changed. From your presentation it's clear that you don't think they're perfect, but that things have changed.

I was particularly struck by one of the presenters before you, who spoke about the fact that they received an award for inclusion, and inclusion of women in particular. When they were given the criteria to apply for it, they did not apply, so they were asked why. The woman touched on this in the presentation, but she spoke in more detail to me at the end.

When they were asked why they hadn't applied, she said, “We don't meet those criteria because we don't have a committee for this and we don't have a committee for that; we don't have a structure for this, and we don't have a structure for mentorship and networking.” However, they do it. They just do it intuitively, and the results are the proof of the pudding. By that I mean the 40% executive component for females.

I'd like your comments. To me this was a woman who achieved results without having a special little committee for it. How do you see achieving results in your world effectively and efficiently? We're talking about integrating young women into the economy and the prosperity of the future of Canada. How do you see doing that?

[Geneviève Latour]

The approach that the FESFO takes is really discussion among the girls. We say we have made progress, or often, in our workshops, we realize we are still a long way from achieving what we are aiming for: an ideal society where the spotlight is on social justice.

I think it is important, first, to be aware of what the reality is. Often, we are told we have equal opportunities, but when we talk to one another we realize that is not true, and we see what each of us can do and what solutions we can find.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I entirely agree, but it is always the result that counts.