Evidence of meeting #45 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was harassment.
A video is available from Parliament.
Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
I would say it's hard to draw a comparison with the stats that were provided last week since our data is not a reflection of the whole universe, because the employers maintain the responsibility of recording, reporting, and investigating these complaints and do not have to report those to us.
I understand your concern about the fact that we have two complaints under part III, and it looks disjuncted with—
NDP
The Chair NDP Marie-Claude Morin
I am going to have to interrupt you, because Ms. Sgro's allotted time has expired.
I now give the floor to Ms. Bateman, who has five minutes.
October 23rd, 2012 / 9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would like to share my time between the two witnesses, beginning with Ms. MacPherson.
Ms. MacPherson, thank you for putting up with our little technical glitches at the start.
I always like to understand the big picture. When you have your employees, you are the chairperson of the Canada Industrial Relations Board. The workplace of the Canada Industrial Relations Board is governed by the values and ethics of the public service and also the rules coming out of Treasury Board as the key employer. Is that correct?
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
Correct. As an employer in the public service, we are subject to the same rules as Ms. Cyr has described for any government department.
Conservative
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
The employer of the staff of the Canada Industrial Relations Board is Treasury Board, yes.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Yes, so you're governed by that.
You made reference to the fact that over a period of time—and I'm very curious about finding out what period of time that is—there were 30-some complaints, and they weren't from the harassee, but rather from the harasser. Is that what you said?
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
Let me be more clear.
The board has to interpret and enforce the provisions of part I of the code. One of the provisions of part I is what we call the duty of fair representation. It imposes on unions the obligation to fairly represent every employee in the bargaining unit that the board has certified them for. They're obliged not to act in a manner that is arbitrary, discriminatory, or in bad faith, with respect to their representation of those employees vis-à-vis their rights under a collective agreement.
I think one piece that has been missing this morning is that in many collective agreements the union and the employer have agreed to non-discrimination and non-harassment policies. An employee who feels they've been subjected to some kind of harassment could also file a grievance. The union has to take that grievance seriously and make a determination as to whether or not it should be brought forward to arbitration.
The employees themselves are entitled to make a complaint to the board if they don't feel that the union has represented them properly, in accordance with the union's obligations under the Canada Labour Code—
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
—and those are the kinds of complaints that we would hear.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Is that the 30 cases that you have? Over how many years did those complaints come in, where somebody thought they weren't being represented appropriately by their union?
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
It was over a 12-year period. I looked at the board's jurisprudence. I was able to identify 30 cases, where sexual harassment was a basis for the complaint and—
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Over 12 years you had 30 complaints? Thank goodness you're there so that people on both sides of the complaint have recourse, as it were, and sober second thought.
Over 12 years, you had 30 complaints. Of those 30 complaints, which ones were frivolous and which ones were true complaints that you felt you had to take action on, that they were justified?
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
On the test that we apply in this case, we're not looking at the merits of the grievance, at whether or not there was sexual harassment. That's not our job. Our role is to tell whether the union—
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
—fairly represented the employee with respect to whatever that grievance was.
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
We don't look at the merits of the grievance. We look at the union's conduct.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
How many of those 30 cases over 12 years were found to be legitimate complaints against the union?
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
I'd have to go back and look at the results. The—
Conservative
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
In a sense, that's an under-reporting, because when we get a complaint, our labour relations officers will often try to mediate, and certainly, if there are complaints—
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
We'd appreciate it, Ms. MacPherson, if you could provide that response in writing.
Meanwhile, I have just a few minutes left, and I want to make sure that I ask the other lady something as well. Thank you very much.
Ms. Cyr—
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
I have 50 seconds? Then here's what I would very much appreciate.
You mentioned, Ms. Cyr, that you had certain percentages of work done. You made reference to education. You made reference to compliance. You made reference to counselling. I suspect that there are other pieces.
If you would be good enough to let this committee know in writing exactly how your time is spent, it would be interesting to us as we go forward, and it may be a determination as to whether or not we need you to come back for further questions.
Is it already over, Madam Chair?