Yes, if I may.
We have some specific examples and numbers in terms of a specific scenario. For example, the case of Donald Ray, and just for your benefit, it's a matter of public record. The case has been much publicized. The disciplinary report was publicized on the Internet and by the media. In that case, the adjudication board or the code of conduct investigation of Donald Ray substantiated a whole series of allegations relating to his abuse of authority and sexual harassment of a number of public servants.
I could go into as graphic a detail as my colleague from UCCO-SACC, but it may be pointless. In our follow-up to this we determined that the RCMP focused on the code of conduct and dealing with the recalcitrant member, but it doesn't have a process to deal with the corollary, which is the sexual harassment and the suffering of those individuals. The union and our local would follow up by talking to these people to find out exactly what the employer had done for them on this matter because it was kept very secret. The majority of them are afraid to even speak to the union about their issues because they fear job loss, career damage, retaliation, a whole host of things. I'm talking about a group of seven individuals who are public servants who were affected in that particular case.
In case two, as I think it's referred to in our brief, which I represented in British Columbia, the individual also suffered retaliation in a variety of forms while pursuing her case.
The problem is that aside from what you hear in the media and what you read about, word gets around within organizations. People will talk to their close friends. It's relatively secret, but the message gets out when you try to complain about harassment, and particularly when you try to complain about sexual harassment, you're in extreme jeopardy because in the system, the old boys' network, not just in the RCMP and DND and other quasi-military organizations but even in other federal government departments, the network and the understanding of dealing with sexual harassment is not there, so women are fearful about complaining.