Status of Women Committee on Jan. 31st, 2013

[Ann Therese MacEachern]

That 28% was with respect to women in senior leadership positions, at what we call the director level and above. I'd have to get back to you with the stats. I don't have them off the top of my head as we go down, but again, we've made very, very good progress over the last number of years in going from 40 to 50. Again, a lot of that is about being very deliberate about what you want and what you expect and integrating that into the hiring processes. We can get back to you with the specifics at the more junior levels.

[Sana Hassainia, NDP, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Maltby, you talked about information sessions on harassment. Do you provide information sessions on sexual harassment specifically? Could you tell us how many hours of training you provide and whether that's sufficient? Do you know if other departments provide more training?

[Amanda Maltby]

Yes, that's a great question.

First off, I don't know if other departments are offering longer training. The e-learning course that we offer is an hour long. We estimate that it takes about an hour. The classroom training that we offer to the new hires of CUPW and PSAC is part of the collective agreement, actually, too, and of our obligation with those bargaining agents. That's a session of three and a half hours, a half-day session within a classroom setting, which is ideal, really, if you want to engage people on this subject and allow them to do exercises.

As Ann Therese has said and as I've said, that training is jointly developed with the unions. We work within that timeframe and we work together in terms of developing the content. I think it's sufficient. We get feedback from the participants and typically it's positive.

[Sana Hassainia, NDP, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

That training is mandatory for all employees, correct?

[Amanda Maltby]

Yes.

[Sana Hassainia, NDP, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

That's great, thank you.

You mentioned earlier that human rights experts were on site to process harassment complaints submitted by employees. Are those people also experts on sexual harassment, in particular?

[Amanda Maltby]

Yes. I would say the types of training they received.... Actually some of these employees we have are now at the point of training other individuals. They are engaged by the Human Rights Commission. They are trained in particular in harassment. Certainly when you have training or expertise in harassment, sexual harassment is an important component of that as well.

[Sana Hassainia, NDP, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Thank you.

Can you tell us in what way the services provided by Canada Post to victims or potential victims of sexual harassment have been improved? What specific measures have you taken?

[Amanda Maltby]

I will answer that by way of saying that when an allegation comes forward and it's founded, obviously there are measures taken as it relates to the workplace and as it relates to the individual who is the harasser.

For those individuals who are impacted, and again I'll go to our human rights representatives, there is follow-up. I would say we don't have a specific program we would use with these individuals, but certainly I know there is follow-up and there is sensitivity as it relates to what it is they have been through. I think in terms of the conversations that take place locally, that's where it would happen.

[Sana Hassainia, NDP, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

This week, a witness told us that some women did not dare tell their employer they were pregnant from fear of losing their job because of cuts.

Do you think that could explain the drop in the number of complaints?

[Ann Therese MacEachern]

There are two answers to that I guess. Most of our employees have job security so while we have seen reductions in our workforce as the end result of declines in mail volume, they have been handled or managed through attrition. From that perspective no, and quite frankly within the management ranks, again I haven't seen this. First of all, the level of complaints within that group, as you folks have rightly pointed out, is minimal, and I have not seen that raised as an issue.

[Amanda Maltby]

I agree.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Thank you.

We will now go to the other side.

Ms. Young, you have five minutes.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you so much for that.

I want to ask if you could recommend to other departments what they could do to have your outcomes, because we're hearing these terrific figures and everything. You mentioned persistence and consistency, which I thought was really good, but surely there are other steps, because we've heard from other departments that they are not having your outcomes.

[Ann Therese MacEachern]

I am going to sound a bit repetitive, but I think it goes back to culture, which I think is not going to come as a surprise to any of you folks.

As I said in my remarks, we're not perfect, and Canada Post has been working on improving the culture in our workplace. We've done a number of things in that regard to move the dial.

For example, we've instituted town halls with front-line employees. In 2011 about 100 executives went out across the country and met with about 23,000 of our front-line employees. That's unusual. We got out of our offices, and we went to our plants and our depots. We talked to people. We talked to people about the business, but I think we also showed the human side of the senior team. That's a little bit unusual. I'm not sure how practical that is for other people, but I think the point of it is are you accessible, are you setting the standard, are you listening. That's part of what we were trying to do.

We have regular business updates with our CEOs. In 2012 what our CEO and members of the senior team did is they took it up a level. They went out and met with about 3,300 of our front-line leaders. In the first instance we went right to the front line, and then we went to the people who led the front line. Again, the nature of those conversations was not harassment. It was really around the business. It's opening up that dialogue that I think is important. That's something I would say.

We have established values, a code of conduct, and some very good policies. You have heard that from many others, I'm sure. I think the key to making those stick is to reinforce them. As I mentioned a few moments ago, we're in the middle of our performance management process, and I happen to be privy to the conversations that are happening and, in fact, provide input. Where people are not necessarily following or respecting the values, that gets reinforced in those conversations, and the expectation gets reset. It's those types of things. I could go on at length about this, but I think it's those types of things that allow the expectations with respect to establishing a workplace free of harassment. That's what helps make it stick.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

In summary, what I'm hearing is it's not just being persistent and consistent, but you're also talking about leadership and being proactive as well.

Let me ask you a question in terms of PSAC. Is this the kind of thing you share with the other unions or the other departments? Is this how you're managing this at Canada Post? For example, it sounds like you have an excellent training program. Is that shared with other departments so that they're not reinventing the wheel, so that they can be doing the same thing?

[Ann Therese MacEachern]

We're open to sharing it.

Maybe you could talk about that, Amanda.

[Amanda Maltby]

Yes.

Through the Human Rights Commission we sit on an employer advisory council. On the council there is a mix of private and public sector organizations. It's a great sharing forum.

What we've actually been asked to do...and this happened in I think 2011.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

You have one minute left.

[Amanda Maltby]

They brought in three of our senior human rights representatives—there were also representatives from the RCMP, their human rights specialists, and we work closely with the Canadian Forces as well—to help them learn from the things we're doing within our workplace.

I think there's an opportunity to do a lot more, on occasion. There are some idea-sharing forums, but I think there probably could be more.

In terms of PSAC and CUPW, through their collective agreements there are appendices just on human rights. We do have joint policy discussions with them, which are very beneficial in terms of making improvements to our policies, to our preventative programs. Also, as we said, they help us deliver the training.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Would you say that's something which through this study we could capture and make a strong recommendation on? I mean, with your excellent outcomes, it's certainly something the other departments could learn from and implement.

[Amanda Maltby]

Yes.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Okay. Thank you so much.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

That's great, thank you.

We have time for one last person.

Ms. Ashton, you have five minutes left.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Merci beaucoup.

I thank the witnesses very much for joining us today.

I want to go back to the point that was raised in terms of the feeling of job insecurity.

I really appreciate the point you mentioned in terms of attrition. This was clearly not a point shared by the experience of many civil servants whose jobs have been cut. So many of them are without any job security. There's a trend where people aren't willing to come forward because they are fearful of losing their jobs—or women are, I should say, in particular.

You mentioned the challenges of a highly digital society and the challenges Canada Post is facing as a result. It's also become clear that people on the front lines have felt that perhaps the supports aren't always there on the front lines. There has been some significant labour unrest, such as the lockout last year

I speak to this in part because of the northern and rural communities I represent when it comes to not only letter carriers but also people who work in the shop at that front desk. I'm speaking in particular not only of the kind of stress that puts on those employees but also the tension it raises with the public. I say this based on experiences I've heard about.

I'm wondering what Canada Post is doing to deal with that kind of a reality. Also, what kind of an ongoing effort are you making to understand the reality of people working in rural, remote locations where, let's be honest, the digital society doesn't actually apply the same way as it does in urban locations? People depend on their mail and also that relationship with their mail carrier and with Canada Post in a much greater way.