Status of Women Committee on Feb. 14th, 2013

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Good morning and welcome to the 59th meeting of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are continuing our study of sexual harassment in the federal workplace.

Joining us again today are Francine Boudreau and Anne-Marie Beauchemin, from the Union of Canadian Correctional Officers.

We will begin the question and answer period right away.

Ms. Truppe, you have seven minutes.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome back, Anne-Marie and Francine. Thank you for coming back so we can have an opportunity to ask you some questions.

In the 2011 public service employee survey, question 60.d. asks respondents to indicate whether they had experienced harassment on the job from individuals for whom they had a custodial responsibility. The responses indicated that 50% of correctional service employees had experienced some harassment from this source in the last year. I was wondering if you could tell us a bit more about what it is like to pursue a career in that sector, which places you at a high risk for a number of things, including harassment or sexual harassment.

[Francine Boudreau, Correctional Officer, Union of Canadian Correctional Officers]

Could you please repeat your question?

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

What is it like to pursue a career in that sector, which, based on your remarks in your last report, places you at a high risk for a number of things, like harassment or sexual harassment? What do you, as a female, expect when you're going into that position?

Then I'll get to the training part about that.

Do you expect it to be a higher-risk job? One of our last witnesses was from the military. She indicated that women going into the force expect it to be different from what it would be like if they were getting a job in a school, for example.

[Francine Boudreau]

Regarding our expectations, there have certainly been some improvements in Correctional Service over the years. Threats, such as death threats, have been made over time. Twenty-five years ago, those kinds of threats did not necessarily go through legal channels. The process was often piecemeal. However, over the years, the disciplinary system has been enhanced, making it possible to report those cases as offences. So disciplinary measures could be imposed so as to remedy the situation.

However, in the case of sexual harassment, the situation is difficult because the concept has become very trivialized. Over the past few years, harassment has been discussed, but it would be difficult to provide you with statistics on that because it's not a problem that is easy to report. That's why I think changing the disciplinary system could contribute to the reporting of those kinds of offences.

In 2013, even if we want to report a case of sexual harassment or an inmate's inappropriate sexual behaviour, the disciplinary system does not contain any provisions we can use.

People want to continue working for Correctional Service. As for us, we will make recommendations. For starters, improvements to the disciplinary system would be very appropriate. That way, legal action could be initiated through police involvement, for instance. The Criminal Code would help us establish a balance of power.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you.

In your last statement, you talked about an inmate deliberately exposing himself in regard to a particular woman.

Is that type of harassment very frequent? Have there been a lot of reports on that from women, or from women and men?

[Anne-Marie Beauchemin, Correctional Officer, Union of Canadian Correctional Officers]

Reports come in occasionally. Officers are reluctant to report such incidents because there is no recourse, or proper recourse, for charging an inmate.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

So there's recourse if it's a correctional officer, but there's no recourse if it's an inmate. Is that right?

[Anne-Marie Beauchemin]

What I mean to say is that if we do charge an inmate, there's nothing exactly on the charge sheet that is specifically for inappropriate behaviour—i.e, exposing themselves. Usually it's put under a minor charge on the sheet.

I'll read to you exactly what the charge sheet says:

...disrespectful toward a person in a manner that is likely to provoke them to be violent or toward a staff member in a manner that could undermine their authority or the authority of staff members in general.

That's basically what we have.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

That's for the inmate.

[Anne-Marie Beauchemin]

Yes. When we charge an inmate, that's what the charge would fall under. There's nothing specifically for masturbation or that sort of behaviour.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

Very quickly, since I only have one minute left, I was surprised when I read the stats that said, overall, 37% of men reported more than two incidents of harassment by inmates, while only 22% of women reported more than two. Women were also more likely to say that they'd never experienced harassment. It was 41%, I think, versus 35% of men.

Do you think there's some reason for the discrepancy? I actually thought it would have been the reverse.

[Anne-Marie Beauchemin]

Is this with regard to harassment between co-workers or for offenders?

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

I think it's co-workers. But it could be offenders, actually; it doesn't specify. It was just harassment in the workplace.

[Anne-Marie Beauchemin]

I'm not familiar with it, so I can't answer that question.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Okay.

[Anne-Marie Beauchemin]

I'm not sure why it would be one way and not the other.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

I was surprised, yes.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Thank you, Ms. Truppe.

We now go to a representative of the official opposition. Ms. Hassainia, you have seven minutes.

[Sana Hassainia, NDP, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ladies, thank you for coming to meet with us.

Ms. Beauchemin, during your last presentation, you told us about a masturbation incident and a female correctional officer who temporarily left her job. You clearly indicated that the complaint process in the case of such incidents is needlessly long and leads to unnecessary trauma for correctional officers.

Following a long struggle with the management, the inmate was transferred to another penitentiary, right? That person was simply transferred, and not punished. No other measures were taken aside from the inmate's transfer.

[Anne-Marie Beauchemin]

I think the person was just transferred to another institution. I will inquire.

Karrie, was he charged?

[A voice]

He was charged...[Inaudible—Editor].

[Anne-Marie Beauchemin]

Okay.

Yes, charges were laid against him, but we still don't know whether a ruling has been made.

[Sana Hassainia, NDP, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Do you think that punishment is adequate, given his actions?

[Anne-Marie Beauchemin]

No.