Status of Women Committee on Feb. 28th, 2013

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

Currently, through our officer candidate program, there is an opportunity for female officer candidates to enter at any time during the process. The process is never closed for female officer candidates or any other member of an employment equity group.

Personally, I ensure that there are equal developmental opportunities for female officers and female officer candidates, and that they are provided with a variety of duties and duty functions to ensure they're positioned to be competitive, on merit, to occupy these positions moving forward.

I think where we need to be proactive is in the committed, conscientious decision to provide those opportunities, because I have heard clearly from the female members under my command that they only want to be advanced on merit.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

I am sorry, Mr. Callens, but I have to interrupt you.

Ms. Bateman, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much, both of you, for being here.

I echo my colleagues, Ms. Sgro and Ms. Ashton, in saying that we are all impressed with the work you have done, the challenges you have met, and the changes you have made. It's very impressive, and it's a model to be replicated.

I particularly enjoyed, sir, your comment that we have to value employees in the workplace. I think we would probably save a lot of resources in dealing with harassment issues if we took your proactive approach and the valuation of employees and their worth in the respectful workplace. I thank you for that.

We had Mr. Ian McPhail, who is the chair of the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP, as a witness this week. We discussed with him the numbers for sexual harassment. We asked if sexual harassment was considered systemic in the RCMP. He basically said that less than 4% of all harassment cases over the last five years in the RCMP were in fact even related to sexual harassment. I found that particularly interesting, and I would like your views on that. Are you addressing all aspects of harassment, including this 4%, which in the past at least has been related to sexual harassment?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

Our respectful workplace action plan and program doesn't distinguish between sexual harassment and harassment. It is all workplace issues, including harassment and sexual harassment.

Indeed I'm familiar with those numbers. I suppose an argument can be made that they are relatively low. I think what I've always been sensitive to and what I think we need to keep our eye on is whether or not we are receiving all of the reports. That is why we have developed initiatives such as the respectful workplace advisers and the confidential reporting system outside the chain of command, so that I can move forward with a sense of confidence that if it is occurring beyond those low percentages that have been identified, then I'm able to deal with it and there are not members and employees who are, for lack of a better term, suffering in silence.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Mr. McPhail also referenced the “Summary Report on Gender Based Harassment and Respectful Workplace Consultations”. He highlighted that what seems to be similar is that the issues really are with bullying along with the issue of lack of training for leadership and a general lack of trust in the process.

You're taking steps to address that, aren't you? Could you amplify for us what you're doing regarding the prevention of abuse of authority as it relates to bullying, and the leadership piece in particular?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

Yes, indeed.

I think both in the gender-based harassment consultation and in our own employee workplace survey here in this province, sexual harassment or harassment has not been identified as a particular problem. What has been identified is too often rude, dismissive, or disrespectful behaviour. A good part of our respectful workplace action plan is directed towards ethical leadership training and respectful workplace maintenance and enhancement, which has been embedded into our supervisor development program, our management development program, and the ethical leadership dialogue that my assistant commissioners are having with every single member of my division during the course of the operational skills maintenance training they undergo.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Regarding the ethical training and the respectful workplace training, it's always good to say that, but it takes resources to do it. What are your dollars for training on site for both managers and middle managers? They're so crucial in this.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Quickly.

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

It's about prioritization. We have prioritized to ensure that ethical leadership training is being embedded within the existing training funds that we have at present.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I thank you very much, sir.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Thank you.

Your turn, Ms. Sgro. You have five minutes.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Thank you very much.

In terms of being a little more specific, you indicated that you look at all of the complaints from harassment. Will you be categorizing them specifically with regard to sexual harassment versus general harassment complaints?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

The sexual harassment complaints are those that meet what I have referred to as threshold allegations. Any threshold allegation, whether it's against the code of conduct or whether it relates to sexual harassment, is brought to my attention when it occurs. Every seven days thereafter I am then briefed on the progress of those investigations. Ultimately, decisions are made in terms of whether or not code of conduct investigations need to be undertaken and discipline to follow.

As it relates to harassment generally, I get updated monthly in terms of the number of new harassment complaints we've had, how many we have been able to conclude, and how many have been determined to be either workplace conflict or harassment. I have those general harassment updates monthly.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Some of the complaints that we've heard from various people before committee, in correspondence, or in the media were about the lack of response. How are you going to prevent things from falling through the cracks?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

I've also heard of a lack of response. Indeed, my own review of historical cases has confirmed that the response times have not met what I would consider to be a reasonable standard.

I think the development of service standards with respect to the receipt, analysis, and investigation of harassment complaints is the key to our success moving forward. Those service standards have been developed, and are rolling out across the country currently.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

You indicated that you have over 9,000 employees in B.C. That's a huge workforce to have to oversee. A lot of what we're talking about today is attitude, about the atmosphere of what people can get away with, what's acceptable, what isn't. Have you attempted through your other various divisions to communicate directly to each one of those 9,000 employees about the attitude that people have? It's not about what they can get away with; it's about what are not respectful workplace procedures to happen.

Have you reached out to communicate to all 9,000 of the people who work for you, especially given the fact that a lot of this stemmed from incidents in your division or in the British Columbia area?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

Yes, it is a large number of employees and it's a large geographic area. British Columbia is a very large province, as you well know.

I have communicated through the course of electronic media, town hall meetings, presentations on supervisor and management courses, leadership forums, and supervisor forums, with literally hundreds, if not thousands, of members.

There is also a structured dedicated schedule of delivering the same message that is followed by my senior command staff, whether they be the three assistant commissioners or the 15 chief superintendents that I have in this division. They have all provided tremendous commitment and support in changing the thinking, in changing the attitudes.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

You have one minute.

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

We have clarified our expectations around behaviour. That is being communicated on an ongoing and continuous basis. I would say it is a part of the dialogue that every senior officer has when meeting with the members under his or her area of command.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

You are doing such great work in moving forward on this whole agenda. Would you have a difficulty or an issue if one of the recommendations in our report was that you report back to the status of women committee in a year as to the success and the challenges still being faced with regard to the whole issue of harassment and sexual harassment?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

I would not have any difficulty with that whatsoever.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Thank you.

We now move to Ms. Young. You have five minutes.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to thank you both for being here, Deputy Commissioner Callens and Inspector Carol Bradley.

My name is Wai Young. I'm the member of Parliament for Vancouver South in British Columbia. You are probably aware of the fact that this issue is very front and centre in terms of what is important to British Columbians, certainly not in Vancouver, because we have our own police force, but I think there is a sort of public confidence impact. Because if we cannot have trust in the RCMP, that kind of bleeds over into other police forces as well.

I'm very aware of the fact that I don't have much time, so I'm going to be fairly direct in terms of my questions. Prior to doing that, kudos to you for having assumed your new commission just over a year ago and moving so quickly to do so much within a very traditional operational situation. We're obviously seeing some results already.

I have a couple of questions in terms of the information we've received today. You have submitted the “Summary Report on Gender Based Harassment and a Respectful Workplace Consultations”. I understand that 426 employees were interviewed in preparation of this report, but there were only women. Is that correct? You didn't interview any men.

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

That's correct.