Status of Women Committee on Feb. 28th, 2013

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

Yes, I do. I think it's a means by which the commissioner can hold his commanding officers accountable to ensure that we are attaching the appropriate priority to these matters. Indeed, my understanding is that the respectful workplace and the attention to the respectful workplace will be attached to his commanding officers' performance agreements in the coming year.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Very quickly, I just want to commend you for all the work you've done. Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Ms. Ashton now has the floor for five minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

We are here to discuss the need for leadership on this file. There's no question the country has been gripped by what has happened in the RCMP and the harrowing stories brought forward by women officers.

Obviously, as the status of women committee, certainly on our side we believe that Status of Women Canada has a role to play in providing leadership in ending sexual harassment in the federal workplace. I'd like to continue that conversation with the minister as well, and I'd like to read a motion into the record, “That, pursuant to Standing Orders 81(4) and 81(5), the committee invite the Minister for Status of Women and agency officials to appear before it, no later than March 19, 2013, to discuss the supplementary estimates (C) 2012-13 and the main estimates 2013-14.” I will be giving this text to the clerk as well.

Going back to the issue of leadership, on Tuesday we heard the negation from Mr. McPhail about there not being any systemic sexual harassment. Then we heard from Commissioner Paulson that there is cultural dysfunction. The reality is a 200-person class action lawsuit has been brought forward against the RCMP, something that we're not seeing from any other corner of the workplace in our country, and that certainly speaks to a widespread experience.

You're obviously counteracting that now with the measures you're taking, but as my colleague Ms. Sgro referred to, many past cases are still outstanding and the grievances are massive and so are the consequences women are living with on a day-to-day basis.

We heard some reference from the commissioner that the RCMP is moving to a gender-free environment—I think one can argue there is no such thing as a gender-free environment—and then, of course, in his next sentence there was reference to the ambitious recruitment goals to actually get women into the RCMP.

There are the tangible pieces you've brought forward: the reporting mechanisms, the policies, the handbook, hiring people. These are all key parts of getting to the problem. But in terms of that culture, one of the points that has been raised by many is the need to have women in decision-making positions, in senior positions.

Inspector Bradley or Deputy Commissioner Callens, could either one of you speak to the situation in “E” Division? How many women are there in senior positions?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

I think, as the commissioner acknowledged, there is tremendous value in the diversity that women and other employment equity groups bring to the organization. Just yesterday I enrolled seven new cadets into the organization who will be travelling to Depot on Tuesday next week. Five of those seven are women.

Approximately 23% of the RCMP sworn members in British Columbia are women. That number is primarily consistent at the ranks of constable and corporal, and the percentages get less as we move up the ranks.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Do you have a percentage to give us in the senior ranks?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

Yes, of my senior officers, who are assistant commissioners and chief superintendents, 15% of them are women.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Sorry, I didn't catch that number.

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

Fifteen per cent of my senior officers are women.

Now, in my view, and I think it's shared by the commissioner, that is too low a number. It does not take advantage of the diversity and the value of that diversity that an increased percentage of women would bring to the organization. I think what the commissioner has done and what we have done in this division has been to put in a clear succession planning system that provides female police officers with the kinds of developmental opportunities they deserve and require to occupy these positions over the course of time and to increase their representation in the senior ranks.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Thank you.

Your turn, Mrs. Amber. You have five minutes.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Deputy Commissioner Callens and Inspector Bradley, for telling us about the initiatives you've undertaken. We appreciate it greatly.

Your report notes that there was a groundswell among some male members who felt they should have been included and that the issue of harassment extends beyond gender. I'm just wondering if you plan to, or if you have taken any steps to address the concerns of the male members of the RCMP. If so, what are they?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

Yes, thank you. The initial gender-based harassment consultations were indeed directed specifically at female members and employees in the organization. That was where I needed to get some particular insight that I didn't have, obviously, by nature of my own gender.

Since that time, however, the broad-based employee workplace survey, to which over 3,100 of our members and employees responded, included both women and men. The 11 objectives and 51 initiatives that are attached to our respectful workplace program provide the same sort of services and, I like to think, the same sense of confidence for both men and women to be supported and to bring cases of harassment and workplace conflict forward.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

So in future data collection and surveys, there will be more of a balance, I would imagine.

Is that what you're saying when you're asking the questions?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

Exactly.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Thanks.

One of the other things mentioned in your report had to do with gender-specific communication styles. I think one of the specific training recommendations was that special attention should be paid to gender-specific communication styles.

Could you explain what this means?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

Last spring I brought every one of my commissioned officers and officer equivalents in for a two-day conference during which one of the presenters presented on gender matters and discussed the importance of communication styles and methods that need to be engaged in to communicate—

[A voice]

There's a fire alarm.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

This is not coming out of my five minutes.

If the building is on fire, you can leave.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Mrs. Ambler, I am going to give you a little more time.

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

I apologize for that.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

That's okay.

I was wondering, maybe you could give us an example of something that might be a gender-specific communication style and how it would impact in the training.

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

When it comes to some of the training we've engaged in, whether it is of the respectful workplace advisers or the respectful workplace committee members or some of the leadership training we're engaged in, I might to defer to Inspector Bradley who perhaps could give a little more insight into that.

[Insp Carol Bradley]

Thank you, sir.

I think a good example was when we hosted the three-day promoting cultural change and gender diversity workshop where we had both men and women on the course. That issue was explored in some detail in terms of how men and women, right from the stages of being very young up into adulthood, may communicate a little bit differently. It was very interesting to watch the dynamic of the groups together in terms of how that played out in terms of specific types of communications.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

I'll bet.