Status of Women Committee on Feb. 28th, 2013

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Would you say that one of the most surprising things, one of the interesting things of note, in conducting that kind of overall questioning and reporting of this very big issue is the overall harassment and bullying that have been identified as the critical issue, as opposed to the 4% for actual sexual harassment that has been identified? Would you say that's correct?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

I don't think it's overall harassment. I think what has been identified is what is too often dismissive and disrespectful behaviour.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Exactly, and that leads me to my next question. Given your long tenure in the RCMP, and also yours, Inspector Carol Bradley, did you find that at all surprising? Obviously, this is where you've worked for many years.

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

Well, it wasn't my experience, but as I indicated earlier, I think I'm at a low risk. I always have been at a low risk of harassment, and certainly sexual harassment. The initial gender-based consultation of the 426 employees was directed towards women for that very reason. I needed to, in those initial months, get a clearer understanding and insight into what the temperature and experience were for our female members in the division. The second much more scientific and fulsome survey was of both men and women and all categories of employee.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

That was what I was also going to ask, because we had Mr. McPhail here the other day, and it was very clear that this is something that impacts the males in the workforce as well. Is that correct?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

Yes.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

What I want to focus on then, because committee members have asked about the report previously, is your process and the actions you put in place, which I find to be very commendable. I want to know what you are doing in addition to that to restore public trust. Is there some kind of information campaign so that the public will know that these actions are being taken and these processes are being put in place so public trust can be restored? Are there thoughts around what is going to go on around that?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

Yes. We have an external communication plan in which we have publicly outlined what it is we're doing with respect to our workplace. I have shared the respectful workplace action plan with each one of our contracting partners, both provincial and municipal. We provide front-line policing services to 16 municipalities. They've been provided a copy of our respectful workplace action plan. I've presented it to our Minister of Justice here in the province and have seen her feedback as well.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Okay. Presenting it to the minister, while being very positive, of course, is great, but how about really restoring public trust, on the ground, in the community?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

I have had much in the way of public dialogue personally with the media on the issue, including putting into perspective the nature of the issue and the nature of the problem.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Again, I'd like to commend you both for your work in this area.

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Ms. Young, I am sorry, but your time is up.

We now move to Ms. Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Thank you.

When we hear reference to bullying as being the primary complaint that comes forward, do you know how much of that bullying is of a sexist nature, or how much of what is being reported is done by men vis-à-vis women?

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Mr. Callens, can you hear me?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

I'm sorry, we were only receiving the French translation of Ms. Ashton's question here in British Columbia.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Ms. Ashton, I am going to give you a little more time because of these technical difficulties.

Mr. Callens, we are going to try again.

Let me know if you have another problem.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

We'll try this again.

Does the bullying that's being reported involve sexist language or attitude, and how much of it is done by men towards women?

[D/Commr Craig J. Callens]

Historically, and it was clear to me through the initial consultation of the 400 members and employees, there were sexist comments being made. Indeed, some of the cases that have come to my attention since I've been the commanding officer have included sexist comments. Those are ones that I have dealt with very quickly and decisively. We are maintaining the data to determine where the abuse of authority issues are arising so that we can address it appropriately. I would say that the bulk of it, or the majority of it, is arising from males.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Thank you for that information. It's important that we recognize there's a spectrum of discrimination, obviously. On one side of the spectrum, the extreme side is sexual harassment, but bullying isn't without its gendered experience as well. I'm glad to hear that you recognize it as such in many cases and that you've dealt with the sexist comments that have been shared.

I'll go back to the issue of training. Do you do more of your training in person? What is the percentage of in-person training versus online training?

[Insp Carol Bradley]

I will answer that question, if that's all right with you.

All of our training is done in person in terms of the respectful workplace action plan in “E” Division. There are online training options that are national, such as harassment awareness training online, and the development of new training around respectful workplaces is under way, as I understand it.

Our training here is in person. We have trained our respectful workplace advisers to act as trainers. A big part of their job is to do respectful workplace awareness training sessions and training sessions on the respectful workplace action plan. To date, in the three months they've been on the ground, they've done presentations to well over 500 employees. Our training also is to provide specialized workshops when we can. We have ethical leadership training that Dr. Stephen Maguire has developed for us. This is being done today and we'll do it later in the month of March.

We have also done training. We are starting to work with our informal conflict management practitioners, who are also developing workshops for in-person training on informal conflict management, which has been identified through our employee surveys as being one of the key issues and the key training gaps for all of our employees, so that we can address those conflict situations at the earliest stages.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Thank you very much for that, Inspector.

Does “E” Division feel that in-person training is better than online training? How do you see it?

[Insp Carol Bradley]

It's a combination. It needs to be multi-faceted. People learn differently, and we do have challenges with regard to geography and numbers, so we would see value in both.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Thank you very much for all of your responses today.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

That ends our session, given that another meeting is scheduled in a few minutes.

Mr. Callens, Ms. Bradley, thank you for agreeing to appear before our committee. Have a wonderful day.

The meeting is adjourned.