Status of Women Committee on March 26th, 2013

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Good morning. Welcome to the 66^th meeting of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women. Today, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we continue our study of sexual harassment in the federal workplace.

Joining us is Cindy Viau, Director's Advisor for the Quebec Help and Information Centre on Harassment in the Workplace. Welcome. Thank you very much for accepting our invitation.

Ms. Viau, you have 10 minutes for your testimony. I will let you know when you have one minute left and we will then move on to questions. You may start now. The floor is yours.

[Madam Cindy Viau, Director's Advisor, The Quebec Help and Information Centre on Harassment in the Workplace]

Madam Chair, members of the committee, good morning. Thank you for welcoming me today by videoconference. The members of the centre and I are happy to participate in your study on sexual harassment in the workplace.

I am aware that you received a document that provides a general overview of our organization, but I would still like to focus on a few points before we move on to the question period.

As the chair mentioned, my name is Cindy Viau and I am the Director's Advisor for the Quebec Help and Information Centre on Harassment in the Workplace. In broad terms, I work jointly with the managers of the organization, I run awareness sessions, I provide in-house training and I manage several special projects. That depends on which projects are in progress during the year.

I would first like to talk about what our centre does. The centre is a non-profit organization that assists victims of harassment in the workplace. Initially, we were a committee affiliated with another organization known as Rank and File, which still exists today. Our mandate was to help victims of sexual harassment in the workplace.

The organization was originally created by women for women. However, since 2004, when the Act respecting Labour Standards came into force, we have also been helping victims of psychological harassment in the workplace. Our mandate has expanded as a result of the growth in demand by the public. Our clientele has also slightly changed. In the beginning, women were the ones who came to meet with the workers at the centre. Today, we are also helping men. However, most of our clients are still women today.

To ensure that the organization runs smoothly, our team is made up of six people. So we have six permanent employees. We have a lawyer, a director, myself, a receptionist and case workers in our two departments. I will briefly tell you what they do.

We also get help from interns who come from various universities in Montreal, specializing in law, criminology, sexology and social work. We can count on the support and help of about seven or eight interns every year. Thanks to those young university women who donate their time, our centre is able to provide high-quality services.

To provide those services to our clients, the centre has put in place a number of services, the main one being the support and information department. I am going to take the time to explain a little about how this department works on a day-to-day basis.

Individuals who call the centre will be directed to the support and information department. A case worker specialized in criminology will take the calls. The worker will be an active listener and provide support and information to the person calling. They try to provide a lot of moral support as well as demystify some situations. When more technical support is needed, other case workers will also be available to help the person draw up their version of the story or to prepare a complaint.

There is a lot of variety and it all depends on the type of call. Some people call once and only have one question. The case worker will be available to answer the question. Sometimes, the files may stay active in this department for months. It depends on the psychological state of the person and whether the person needs long-term support.

The support and information department also organizes café-rencontres. Those are informal meetings for people who have experienced sexual or psychological harassment in the workplace. At the outset, in 1980, the centre was sort of a big café-rencontre between women. Women would get together to talk about what they were experiencing in their workplaces.

The department organizes those meetings three times a month and they are open to the public. People can come and talk about what is working and what is not working for them and what the status of their files is. Our mandate is to break the isolation and to empower women to confront their harassment situation at work.

We also have an internal newspaper called Info-GAIHST. It is an informational newspaper that is published on average four times a year and is distributed to our members, contacts and partners with a view to sharing the news of the organization. In addition, if an interesting ruling is made, we will publish it in our internal newspaper. The goal is always to keep people informed.

After someone calls the support and information department and the criminologist does the follow-up, if the person requires legal assistance, their file may be transferred to the legal services department of our organization. We have a lawyer and a criminologist available to help clients with their legal proceedings. I am talking about legal assistance. In addition, the case workers will provide information to ensure that the clients fully understand what is going on. It is our experience that a number of steps can be taken to deal with workplace harassment. Depending on the situation, it can be quite complicated to really understand all the obligations of an individual. So those workers are available to provide information. They also provide moral support and they can go with the clients to court. Depending on the file, they can provide legal representation. It can also mean negotiating with the employer, mediating between the employer and the client to find common ground in a harassment case. The scope is rather vast and it depends on each case. Some files are active for a few months whereas others are active for a few years, depending on the needs and all the factors that come into play in a particular case.

We also have a department that organizes awareness sessions. That is one of the organization’s major objectives and we are trying to expand it, given how important it is to talk about harassment. We provide this service so that people know what harassment is and what they can do if they ever feel that they are victims of sexual or psychological harassment in the workplace. Those awareness sessions are between one hour and a half and three hours long. It all depends on the needs of the organization that makes the request.

For instance, we can go and talk to the employees of a company about the definition of harassment, how to recognize it and what to do if a person ever feels that they are a victim of harassment. We also visit women’s groups and community centres where there is a real demand to clarify the basic concepts related to harassment.

We also offer in-house training sessions to employers, managers, human resources staff and union members to explain what harassment is, how to recognize it and how to handle a complaint if an employee wants to meet with a manager to talk about a harassment problem at work.

Generally, employers are the ones who call us to receive this type of training. So we adapt the content of the training to their needs. For instance, we determine whether there is a workplace harassment situation or whether they just want to make sure that everyone knows what the law says and what their obligations are, by also reminding them what the policies contain. That really depends on the needs of the company that requests our services. So we try to adapt our training.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Ms. Viau, you have one minute left.

[Madam Cindy Viau]

Thank you.

The in-house training can take between three hours to a day and a half, depending on needs.

To conclude, I would like to briefly point out that what all our clients have in common is the vulnerable state they are in. They often suffer from depression, situational anxiety and are in a precarious financial situation. That is sort of the profile of our clients who come to see us when they need help.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Thank you, Ms. Viau. That was very interesting. I must admit that I worked in the community setting for a number of years and I am particularly impressed to see that there is an organization that does not keep people waiting for more than 24 hours, has no waiting list and charges no fees for its services.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

There is no translation. It was there.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

The mike is probably the problem.

So I will repeat my comments for the benefit of my colleagues who did not hear the interpretation.

Is it okay? Do you have interpretation?

Okay. I will repeat.

I was saying that I am very impressed with a community organization whose wait time is no more than 24 hours, that has no waiting list and that charges nothing for its services. My hat is off to you.

We now move to the question-and-answer period.

Ms. Truppe, you have seven minutes.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Madame Viau, for attending today.

My understanding is that part of the work that your organization does is to assist individuals who are experiencing workplace harassment to better understand their rights in the workplace and to assist them to pursue a complaint of workplace harassment.

From what I hear, Quebec is in a unique situation because legislation exists dealing with workplace harassment. Is that correct?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

Yes, correct; in Quebec, we have the Act Respecting—

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Could you explain what legislation exists in Quebec for workplace harassment, if you're familiar with that?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

Yes. At the beginning of the presentation, I mentioned the provisions of the Act Respecting Labour Standards that deal with psychological harassment in the workplace. But victims of sexual harassment can also register complaints under that act. Complaints can be registered at the Commission des normes du travail.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

What sort of recourse does an individual have when making a complaint of sexual harassment in the workplace under this legislation? Is there a possibility of a financial settlement, or do they rearrange the work environment so it's better for the individual?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

The work environment can be rearranged, yes. At the centre, we sometimes see situations like that. It can be as simple as moving the person to another office. When possible, she can be transferred from one branch to another, for example. But there can still be internal ways of improving the situation of victims of workplace harassment. Of course, we always have to assess how feasible the possibility is for the company. For a small company, an interbranch transfer may be impossible, simply because there is no other branch.

There can be financial compensation. The caseworkers in our centre's legal department often try to mediate with employers in order to come to an agreement that works for both parties and prevents the situation from getting too legalized, if I may put it that way. By that, I mean lawsuits or complaints before the Commission des normes du travail. It is an alternative solution that may avoid the long delays encountered when processing complaints before a commission.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Say that there is a really serious complaint and maybe they want the person fired or they certainly don't want to work in that environment. Could you walk me through the steps about what happens when someone actually comes to you? What happens to the individual and to the employer? What's the scenario?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

That depends on the circumstances. When people come to see us, they are certainly in a fragile state of mind. If we consider it necessary, we can advise then to take sick leave from work. That means they are no longer in the workplace and they can gather their strength again. Certainly, we encourage a meeting with the employer to discuss the situation and see if there is a way for anything to be done.

It may be rare, but it does happen that some people stop the harassment when the situation is addressed and they are told that their behaviour is not acceptable. If a person who has been complained about does not then stop the harassment, we try to determine the best solution for the victim, of course. I can tell you that, at that point, the person in many cases wants to leave that workplace. They no longer trust the company, or they feel uncomfortable with their colleagues, who often know what is going on.

We then make sure that it is really what they want. In fact, we always assess the needs of our clients. We never push them in one direction or the other. We really work according to their needs. We help them to leave the company without losing everything. We try to negotiate; for example, we try to get a letter of reference, a severance payment, the reimbursement of the costs of psychological care, if there have been any, or the costs of searching for a new job.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

What happens if the employer doesn't want to meet with you? You said that, obviously, if the woman is fragile, she may take sick leave or not be in the workplace. Then you meet with the employer. If it's a private company and the employer says, “I'm not going to meet with you; I didn't do anything wrong”, what happens then?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

Actually, I imagine we could send a letter on the victim's behalf.

Sometimes, our tactic is to indicate that we get a copy of the letter so that the employer knows that we are involved in the case. If the employer really resists, the victim can tell him that, if he does not deal with the situation seriously in a reasonable time, she will register a complaint. So that is the next step, when the employer’s mind is really closed, if you will.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

If they have resistance and she files a complaint, with whom is she filing that complaint?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

It could be the Commission des normes du travail, for example. A complaint could also go to the Commission des droits de la personne for discrimination on the basis of gender. But it will depend on the particular features of the case. The legal department will provide the proper advice so that people know where to go.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Thank you, Ms. Truppe.

We now move to Ms. Ashton, for seven minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Good morning, Madam Viau, and thank you very much for your presentation. I would also like to congratulate you for the essential work you are doing.

Could you tell us if there are centres like yours in other parts of Canada?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

Not to my knowledge. But I know that other centres do deal with the problem of workplace harassment. But, to my knowledge, which is mostly of Quebec, we are the only centre whose sole focus is on workplace harassment, though I may be completely wrong.

The centre I mentioned beforehand, Au bas de l’echelle, helps non-unionized workers with a number of problems. It deals with the problem of harassment in a small way. But a lot of centres call us to refer their clients who are victims of workplace harassment to us.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

That is a pity because your services are clearly in demand in Quebec and, I am sure, across Canada too.

Are some workplaces better than others in terms of sexual harassment?

[Madam Cindy Viau]

No. I feel that all situations are at risk. When I talk about a secretary or someone who works in a bar being harassed, I am talking in stereotypes, it is true. But it can also happen in many other environments.

What makes the difference is the way in which employers deal with the cases; the fact that they do not close their eyes to situations. For example, if an employer is told about a situation that he sees as serious, he deals with the person about it and reacts to the situation.

That is what we feel makes the difference. But, in terms of workplaces, it is not a matter of some being bad and some being less bad. If we look at all our centre's cases, we see that some employers are more proactive and others are more reluctant, in the sense of being less willing to work with us.