Evidence of meeting #68 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was female.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
—and then it goes away. Are there any retention pieces if it's a serious—
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Please elaborate on that because we in the federal public service could learn what you're doing on that one.
Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police
It's what we call informal discipline. In other words there's a written warning, a verbal counselling session with a senior officer that this was wrong and the person shouldn't have done it, and don't do it again. That stays on their record for two years. If it's gone past that two, that higher level where they've actually been charged with an offence under our discipline process and convicted, that stays on their record forever.
Conservative
Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police
It is. They can apply and there can be a process to maybe have it removed 25 years after the fact. I'm not aware of that occurring, but I know the potential is there. It's interesting too because if you're a five-year officer and you're convicted of discreditable conduct, that will be on your record forever. So when you retire at 30 years of age.... And this is my understanding of it, and of course I fortunately haven't had any of those things on my record that have stuck with me to worry about, but for others who have, I've seen the files. When they retire they don't get a retirement scroll from the commissioner signed to say they've performed 30 years of exemplary work, because they didn't. They might have performed 29 but they had a gap in there, so they get a scroll that basically says thanks for being here, as opposed to saying they did an amazing job, an exemplary service. We changed the wording on those.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Bravo. I think the public service of Canada could learn a lot from you.
Regardless, the people who offend in the public service, as long as after the two years, they—
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Is my clock stopped for her point of order?
That's remarkable, sir, thank you.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
Yes.
With all due respect, the repeated reference to the public service—I mean, we're also looking at the RCMP, the Canadian Forces. This is the OPP—
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
All public service, all public servants—this is not a point of order.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Sorry. Excuse me, committee.
Ms. Ashton, I don't think that's a point of order, frankly. I'll go back to Ms. Bateman. We'll start the clock again.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Our intention, sir, with this study is to ensure that anyone in public service has behaviour that is beyond reproach, and that we create workplaces where we would want to work in ourselves. That's the intention.
We have a lot to learn from your practices. You clearly are not an organization that's just talking the talk; you are an organization that is walking the talk, as well.
Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police
We're certainly trying. As a previous witness said, you try to set the example at the leadership level, then model the behaviour that you expect the rest of the organization to achieve. Some employees without a doubt would say we didn't do things right in some cases or would say that they didn't feel they were properly dealt with. Unfortunately, that would be the case, but we certainly try our best. If we make mistakes, we try to learn from them, and then move forward and not make the same mistakes again.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Do you have an EAP, an employee assistance program?
Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police
Yes, we do.
Conservative
Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police
It is. From a management perspective, all we get from our employee assistance program—an external service provider hired by us to provide those services, psychological and counselling and different things—are statistical reports with no names. They have an obligation to tell us if someone is maybe suicidal or may harm someone else, but short of that, we never know names. We only know that so many constables receive counselling; so many sergeants receive whatever. It's at a very high level.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you. I'm sorry, your time is over.
Commissioner Lewis, thank you so much. This has been well worth waiting for. You were on our list of witnesses very early on in the study and I'm really glad that you've come now. It's been extremely helpful listening to how progressive you are.
Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police
Thank you. We are very proud of our organization.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
I know Ms. Boniface very well. She always had really good things to say when I had several meetings with her. It was nothing to do with this, but about her career in the OPP.
On bullying and harassment, some people are saying that over and above the sexual harassment section, harassment is very much another form of bullying. What kind of policies do you have when it comes to what you would classify as bullying versus harassment. Do you have a policy different from one to the other, or would you suggest they could probably be mutually the same?
Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police
We consider non-sexual harassment, like workplace harassment and bullying, to be the same thing. I'd have to really look closely at the wording to see how that works.
A supervisor’s treating someone unfairly, treating some employees differently than others in a negative way, many would call that bullying, but that's harassment if it's non-sexual or not occurring because of gender. If a supervisor or manager is mean and doesn't treat people right, that's harassment. It's not sexual harassment, but it still fits within our WDHP complaint process.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Women comprising 50% of your latest class coming through is really something. I think, it makes all of us as Canadians very proud, the fact they feel that comfortable. It's very different from what we're hearing at the RCMP, for all kinds of reasons, I'm sure.
Have you had any consultation, has there been a request from the RCMP to the OPP for suggestions on what your policies are? Clearly you're having good success and anyone could see that.
Commissioner, Field Operations, Ontario Provincial Police
I'm not aware of any. I know the chief superintendent in charge of our career development bureau sits on a chiefs of police human resources committee that meets nationally. The RCMP are a big part of that committee. They just met last week in Vancouver, actually. They discuss trends and things and try to learn from one another. That's all I can really say that I know occurs on a regular basis.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
On the fact that the discipline has been as severe with a couple of individuals as it has been, which you alluded to before, and the fact, though, that pay gets red circled even though they get demoted from an inspector down to a constable or a staff sergeant, I find that very interesting, because often it's the pay that really matters in some cases.
For someone to continue to receive an inspector's pay when they have been demoted significantly, I find that interesting. Why was there the decision to just red circle their wages at the time?