Status of Women Committee on Oct. 27th, 2011

[Claudette Dumont-Smith]

Well, there are very limited resources in communities, as my research showed, and that's also what the grandmothers told us in the Grandmother Spirit project. There's also always a limitation of funds, and we don't have the same services as you would have in off-reserve settings.

Funding for services on the reserve is provided by the federal government. These are different from services that are provided to the mainstream population, such as in the provinces or even in the territories. It's not at all the same. It's very much lacking, especially in programs for the abuse of aboriginal senior women. I've come across nothing that has been put in place, except for what we heard from the grandmothers: that one is speaking on the radio and one is with the RCMP.

But I'm sure there are very, very few of those, and there are no funds to access from the funding source for reserves, which is the federal government's way to address this issue.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

This topic is very dear to our hearts. We know that since our government took office the Status of Women alone has committed over $6.7 million to the Native Women's Association of Canada. What programs is that money going to?

[Claudette Dumont-Smith]

What we're receiving from Status of Women Canada is as your colleague said. Evidence to Action is more action-oriented than Sisters in Spirit, which was the five-year initiative. The difference between the two is that Sisters in Spirit funded research and advocacy.

Evidence to Action does not have those two pieces, so it will be about raising awareness, about having vigils for the families of missing or murdered women. We will have family gatherings, we will speak to police services, but again, it's not specific to senior women.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

But it's still of benefit to the community?

[Claudette Dumont-Smith]

Oh, yes. It is of benefit for sure.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

To the women of the area.

Do I still have time?

[The Chair, NDP, Niki Ashton]

Yes. You have a minute and a half.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

We also are aware of many women who go into transition homes for a certain period and who then, after that period is done, usually return to their own homes, either because they have to look after their own children or for some other reason. Do you think that women should have the right to benefit from matrimonial property? If they did, would this reduce abuse of senior women?

[Claudette Dumont-Smith]

The matrimonial real property that's going before the legislation...?

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Yes.

[Claudette Dumont-Smith]

Will it benefit the senior women? I cannot answer that because we don't have the data. I explained that in my presentation today. We don't have current stats, really, on the abuse of aboriginal female elders, so I would be speaking in the air, so to speak. I think we need research dollars to really identify the prevalence and types of abuse. We don't have that data so I really can't answer that question.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Do you have any information on that, Christine?

[Dr. Christine Walsh]

Not specifically, but I can say that the other area I do research in is homelessness. We are finding that more and more women are becoming homeless through losing a partner or losing a job. They are ending up in absolutely homeless conditions. This is really the first time we're seeing that. We do know that poverty and homelessness are tremendous risk factors for abuse, so we have another population that is hidden and is at risk for heightened abuse.

[The Chair, NDP, Niki Ashton]

Thank you very much.

We'll now to move to Ms. Freeman, who is sharing her time with Ms. Borg.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you so much for being here, Ms. Walsh and Ms. Dumont-Smith.

I'm going to start with Ms. Dumont-Smith.

We know that aboriginal adults account for around 20% of people admitted to sentenced custody but represent only 3% of the population. Given that aboriginals are targeted by law enforcement and are in prison disproportionately, do you feel that harsher laws are going to be the key to solving senior abuse?

[Claudette Dumont-Smith]

I don't think that increasing the number of aboriginal people in jail is going to resolve the problem. I think it'll be more problematic for correctional institutions to house all these people.

We have to address the underlying issues of why the rates of abuse against women in general are so high. I think the contributing factors are poverty, socio-economic conditions, and overcrowding, and as long as these situations are not addressed, the status quo will remain.

Also, I think there's a lack of awareness, and this I know for a fact from my community. People don't even know.... Well, they know that if they hit somebody, that's physical abuse. But as for emotional or financial abuse, neglect, or leaving the grandparents with the grandchildren to raise, they don't even realize those are forms of neglect and abuse. We have to embark on an education and awareness prevention campaign. That hasn't been done, to my knowledge.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you.

I agree. Also, it's the lack of access to health care and services. How does that affect the abuse of aboriginal people in general and of senior aboriginal people, both in terms of culturally specific access and general remote access not actually being available in communities...?

[Claudette Dumont-Smith]

I think the whole issue of the abuse of aboriginal females is not brought to the fore. I know it happens. It's not being talked about in the communities. I think it's kept underneath. It's invisible, but it's there, and we have to do something to bring it to the fore.

I come from a community of about 2,500 people. I'm sure there are a few aboriginal elders there who are abused or neglected, but the issue has never come forward. It's a silent issue. It's an invisible issue. That, I think, is one of our greatest obstacles, and it's something that we have to address.

For example, when you look at smoking or HIV, you see that the government has put a lot of money into campaigns about those. Everybody knew about them. I think that effort also has to be put in regarding issues of violence. Until that's done, nothing is going to change.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

The government has just completed this federal elder abuse initiative, which was about awareness of the abuse of older people. I spoke to Ellen Gabriel, who's in Kanesatake, which is in my riding, and she said there was never any survey or any awareness program and there were never any designated services for older people who are abused. Why hasn't this reached aboriginal communities? Are we not providing specific—

[Claudette Dumont-Smith]

I wish I could tell you why it hasn't reached them. Maybe it's because there has to be a call for proposals or something.

There's not only the Native Women's Association of Canada. We have the Aboriginal Nurses Association of Canada. We have the physicians, and there are social workers. We have to get them on board about this issue so that we can address it properly. I think if the call isn't put out specifically to them, it becomes lost or generalized, and perhaps they feel it's not for them.

I would have to say there has to be outreach to these groups at the national level and at the provincial level to really begin to seriously look at this issue.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you.

I'm going to pass this on to Ms. Borg.

[Charmaine Borg, NDP, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you for being with us today.

My first question is for Ms. Walsh.

You spoke about the lack of research in aboriginal communities and immigrant communities, basically minority communities. Since we cannot address the problem without doing sufficient research in advance, how can the research be done efficiently?

[Dr. Christine Walsh]

If I understand your question correctly, it's about how to conduct research effectively and efficiently within those communities.

I think the communities themselves have to be the ones to conduct the research or to partner with researchers to enable them to conduct the research, I think because communities are most sensitive to what the issues are. Both of the communities I've outlined, as well as other communities that are less frequently heard in terms of research, have many issues that outsider researchers aren't aware of.

So I think it's challenging to do, but it's fundamentally important to do, because we talk about them as minorities, but in terms of the cultural fabric of Canada there are many people whose voices haven't been heard and whose victimization hasn't been adequately recognized or addressed. I think we need to capture that information in ways that are appropriate and relevant and that will lead directly to interventions that are meaningful for those communities.

[The Chair, NDP, Niki Ashton]

Thank you very much.

We will now move on to Mr. Holder.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I would like to thank our guests for attending today. Your comments are very helpful for what we are considering.

You will find in this committee that some of us—and perhaps all of us—will ask questions in a pointed way to try to get our agendas on the table. I'd like to go a little broader than that if I can, please, because I think what we are trying to do is have an objective sense of it.

I'm always concerned by those who have the view that there isn't a situation they can find where throwing money at it won't solve the problem. If it were that simple.... Frankly, I think it's much deeper, and I think that if there is anything I've taken from the testimony that you've provided today, it's exactly that. There are other deep-rooted issues.

Respectfully, Ms. Dumont-Smith, what I find very interesting between your testimony and that of Ms. Walsh, as we have heard from our witnesses before, is that it may matter or be different by degree. But when you talk about some of the very serious issues in terms of elder abuse.... I'm mindful, by the way, that when I say that with respect to our aboriginial communities, I mean elder in the sense of older person abuse, if you'll forgive me for just using that as a reference.

Many of the issues--in fact, if I might be this bold, all of the issues--are the same, maybe not by degree, but in terms of physical, emotional, financial, and various kinds of abuses that we all know. There may be some areas in which the degree is different for some of the things you have told us today. That might well be true. I'm just compelled by the similarities. I think that is very interesting.

There is something that did work with your community and that you talked about, Ms. Dumont-Smith. I would like to get a better insight into it, because when things work, I am really interested. You talked about the Grandmother Spirit project. Forgive me, but was that a new horizons program?