Status of Women Committee on April 25th, 2013

[The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Tilly O'Neill Gordon (Miramichi, CPC)), Conservative, Tilly O'Neill-Gordon]

I call the meeting to order and I welcome the guests who are with us: Andrew Beynon, Jo-Ann Greene, and Karl Jacques.

Thank you for coming back to meet with us today to answer questions.

We're going to get started right away, going to Ms. Truppe, first, for seven minutes.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

There has been a lot of consultation done on Bill S-2. Could you state for the record the number of meetings that have been held with first nations on this topic? Of those that were held across the country, could you give me examples of some of the places in which the consultations were held?

[Jo-Ann Greene, Senior Policy Advisor, Lands Modernization Directorate, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Madam Chair, I'll start with that, and if my colleagues find that I need to be corrected or if they have any additions, they'll make them.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[Jo-Ann Greene]

Just to start a little farther back, studies and focus group sessions and information sessions were held starting in 2000 concerning the issue of matrimonial real property on reserve. The preliminary planning for the consultation process started with the Native Women's Association of Canada and the Assembly of First Nations.

From that, when the national consultation process started in 2006, there were 103 sessions held at 76 locations across Canada. A lot of them were held regionally, with meetings in such different locations as Fredericton, Quebec City, Thunder Bay—there were others in Ontario. Those are just a few names of places in which sessions were held.

As part of the consultation process, the Assembly of First Nations and the Native Women's Association of Canada each received $2.7 million for their participation. Overall, $8 million was spent on the process. Aboriginal Affairs spent more than $2.8 million on the process as part of that $8 million, part of the consultation process that took place.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

The $2.8 million was part of the $8 million. Is that what you said?

[Jo-Ann Greene]

Yes, Madam Chair, that was part of that $8 million.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

I'm sorry. Are you looking up something, or are you finished your answer?

[Jo-Ann Greene]

Just to go on, if you want a little more information on this, part of the consultation process included four phases: the planning, the national consultation, the consensus-seeking or consensus-building, and also engagement on draft legislation.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Can you describe that “consensus-seeking”? What is it?

[Jo-Ann Greene]

The consensus-seeking process was one, facilitated by the ministerial representative, trying to seek consensus on what the content of the legislation might contain. During those processes and the engagement process on the draft legislation, the parties all had the opportunity to provide their input into what would appear in the legislation.

For instance, some of the comments received from the Native Women's Association of Canada and the Assembly of First Nations on restructuring the bill were that it should focus the elements on the family home and create new concepts and definitions other than “real property”. They thought that might be an issue.

A change in title also was recommended. It is called the family homes on reserves and matrimonial interests or rights act now, but originally it was going to be called the “matrimonial real property or removables act”. They suggested that such a title might be a bit problematic, given the different kinds of ownership on reserve. So they suggested the current title, as part of the consultation.

Concerning the definition of “family home”, one of the issues they really wanted to stress was the “for greater certainty” issue, which is reflected in the bill in clause 5. It reflects and clearly states that title to the lands does not change the status of reserve lands.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Great. Thank you. What level of participation did the provinces and territories have during the creation of this bill?

[Jo-Ann Greene]

The provinces were engaged in the consultation processes. There were individual sessions held. They could provide comments. There were also group conference calls held where they could provide input and information on—

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

With all the provinces?

[Jo-Ann Greene]

Yes. All the provinces took part in that.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

How many written submissions were requested and how many did you receive?

[Jo-Ann Greene]

We didn't request necessarily any written submissions. However, the three parties, AFN, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Native Women's Association of Canada, had a 1-800 number available during the consultation times. We also had an e-mail address and also an address where they could provide written submissions for comments, should they choose to. Anyone across Canada was able to provide comment to any of the parties through those means.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

I understand what the centre of excellence is, but how will it support first nations who are developing their own legislation on the topic of on-reserve matrimonial rights, property rights?

[Jo-Ann Greene]

The centre of excellence is planned—because of course it is pending appropriate funding approvals—to support first nations through providing information, tools and communications, and best practices related to the development of matrimonial real property laws. As well, should they choose not to develop their own first nation law, it is to help bring better understanding of the provisions that are in Bill S-2.

The centre of excellence is planned to be established within an existing organization that is at arm's length from the government and the first nations that it intends to serve.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

At arm's length from government and first nations.

[Jo-Ann Greene]

Yes.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

My time is up? Okay.

[The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Tilly O'Neill Gordon), Conservative, Tilly O'Neill-Gordon]

I'm going on to Niki.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Thank you very much.

I'm wondering, first off, how many consultations were held on Bill S-2? Not the predecessors but on Bill S-2, which I understand was presented December 1, 2011.

[Jo-Ann Greene]

Madam Chair, to address that, we have had ongoing discussions with first nation organizations, first nation groups and representatives, since the introduction of the legislation back in 2008. We heard testimony from witnesses at the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights.