Status of Women Committee on May 2nd, 2013

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

On behalf of the committee, I wish to apologize for interrupting your time here as well. I know that we had votes, so your time was cut short.

I want to go back to Chief Louie.

I was talking about the provisions under Bill S-2 that deal with one of the issues you spoke about. It had to do with leased property on reserves. There was some concern that if it automatically changes to someone else who wasn't named on the original document, perhaps the upkeep of the home was not going to be there and there were going to be some other issues.

Were you aware those provisions to deal with that specific issue were actually in Bill S-2?

[The Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

We don't have time for an answer, the seven minutes are over.

Thank you to everyone. Once again, thank you to witnesses. I'm sorry we have cut this so short.

I will ask for the collaboration of everyone in the room to switch places as quickly as possible to ensure we have as much time as possible to continue our hearing.

[The Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

We are resuming this meeting of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women. May I remind you that we have unanimous consent for the committee to sit until 1:15 p.m.

We welcome Mr. Jeffrey Cyr, who is the Executive Director of the National Association of Friendship Centres. Through videolink we have with us Ms. Deborah Campbell, from the Young Women's Christian Association. Thank you very much for being here.

Before we begin, I see that Ms. Ashton has a point of order.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I wanted to share that I'm really very concerned about our first panel session. I understand that a number of the witnesses felt put in a very difficult position. They were under the impression of having seven-minute Q and A. Questions and comments were directed at them that they had no chance to challenge. Some of the statements that were made were not factual.

My concern is that not only are we not splitting the time equitably, but on such a serious issue we are asking people to travel across the country and speak to this issue, with all the greatest respect, yet we don't give the time—

[The Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Madam Ashton, could you get back to your point of order, please? I don't hear a point of order.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

My point of order is that we should make sure we split the time equally and that we make sure that witnesses in the seven minutes have time to respond to comments that we direct to them.

[The Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

I didn't hear any point of order here.

I can say to our witnesses, however, that each of you has up to a maximum of 10 minutes. If you could make your statements shorter than that, it would help give every member their time, but I cannot force you to do that. You have 10 minutes to use at your discretion.

I apologize, but I simply want to correct a mistake.

Through videolink we have with us Ms. Kim van der Woerd, who is a member of the board of the Young Women's Christian Association. Ms. van der Woerd is going to have to leave us at 1:10 p.m. If you have any urgent questions to put to her, you should thus do so before her departure.

Without further ado, I yield the floor to Mr. Cyr.

[Jeffrey Cyr, Executive Director, National Association of Friendship Centres]

Thank you. I'll try to be as succinct and brief as I can so that everyone gets their time.

Colleagues on the video conference, Madam Chair, distinguished members of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, thank you for the opportunity to present on what we consider to be a very serious issue.

I wish to also acknowledge the traditional lands of the Algonquin nation where we are meeting today.

For your edification, my name is Jeff Cyr. I'm a Métis from Manitoba and the executive director of the National Association of Friendship Centres. This is my first appearance in front of your committee. As such, I'll provide some background as to who we are as an organization, what we do, and why that's relevant to the issue at hand.

The National Association of Friendship Centres is a national aboriginal organization comprised of 119 friendship centres across the country, from coast to coast to coast. That includes seven provincial and territorial organizations.

The early history of the friendship centre movement in Canada is found in the cities of Toronto, Winnipeg, and Vancouver. It was started in the 1950s, by aboriginal people, for aboriginal people. The history and evolution of the friendship centre movement is reflective of the modern history of aboriginal people in Canada. Our history is one of continual growth and continual expansion as we seek to meet the health, social, economic, safety, educational, and transitional needs of first nations, Métis, and Inuit peoples in the urban centres of this country.

For over 60 years we've been front and centre in assisting aboriginal people to become fully acquainted with urban life, maintain their culture as an anchor, and utilize services available to them as they adjust to life in the city.

Friendship centres not only provide invaluable services to urban aboriginal people who utilize these programs; the movement also provides employment. There are currently 2,600 people employed through friendship centres, and 72% of them are women. We are also community anchors and we're hubs for social innovation in urban centres.

In my notes I have a list of programs and services that we provide. I'm going to be very brief with this: prenatal, healthy babies, head start, youth care, housing, mental health and wellness, diabetes, drug and alcohol, youth programs, employment services, and on and on. Issues of violence and youth at risk for sexual exploitation and crimes are also areas of high priority for our movement, along with protecting women and children from harm and family violence.

While friendship centres have had long-term success in offering and delivering these vital services, there are many challenges that we confront. Some are forced by demographic realities while others pertain to organizational capacities. As you know, the urban aboriginal population in Canada continues to increase. In 1996 it was 47%. In 2006 it was 54%. Today it is over 60%. In some metropolitan areas, over 80% of the population lives in urban areas. Of course, that population is overwhelmingly young, under the age of 25.

These demographic realities place strong pressures on the human and fiscal capacities of our centres. We can talk later about how our centres are funded, if it comes up in questions. I'm going to move on so that we can get to the point. Throughout our history, friendship centres have been places that aboriginal peoples seek out as they move to urban areas for a variety of reasons.

Now we come to the issue at hand: matrimonial real property and its effects. It is abundantly clear that MRP is a serious issue, a serious human rights issue, and it needs to be dealt with. When women and children leave their community as a result of these issues, where do they go? Where do you think they go? On the whole, they end up in cities. They look for services, and they end up at the friendship centre door.

As the National Association of Friendship Centres, we need there to be awareness of the social complexities of these issues that have been wrought in the off-reserve environment. The presentation earlier today by AFN and the other presenter spoke to some of those social complexities.

I want to commend, first of all, the lands modernization unit of Aboriginal Affairs, who approached us to discuss this issue well over a year ago—not on a legal basis but on a service basis, because what we're talking about is people's lives—on who helps those affected while the legal realm gets sorted out.

With very limited funding, we as an organization created a searchable online database that provides information on over 6,000 service agencies, aboriginal and non-aboriginal alike, where our friendship centres are located. It includes contact information on programs and services related to health, housing, education, justice, culture, child care, community support, and government support.

We created this database as a means of providing information directly into the hands of aboriginal people, and in particular first nation women, who need this information for their transition from reserve to a city. This website, which will be launched later this month, is called New Journeys, and other than the thousands of service organizations and agencies it lists, the site also contains transitional planning guides for women, students, and families. There are safety features on the site that include an erasable search history to safeguard women who may be experiencing domestic violence and are making plans to relocate to a city.

This project began in 2011 when we did an environmental scan and some research. There are a few things we learned during that process. Aboriginal people are likely to face multiple barriers when they first arrive in the city, including poverty, lack of education, unemployment, lack of adequate housing, racism, and a sense of social exclusion.

Many will face difficulties navigating multiple systems in jurisdictions while attempting to locate programs and services. Easy access to services upon arrival in the city is essential to ensuring a good transition, however some aboriginal people are unaware of available programs and services. Moreover, agencies are also often unaware of available services.

There was a need for a system to address the immediate transition issues of newcomers to ensure that their adjustment to city life is a positive one. There are only a handful of organizations that offer services that are specific to supporting aboriginal people who are newcomers to the city. There was a need for collaboration between first nations and urban aboriginal organizations in program delivery, and such cooperation will result in a more seamless transition to city life.

I want to draw the attention of the members of this committee to the reality of how socially complex issues such as MRP play out on the ground, and to who supports those who need help. I believe we need to engage and support organizations such as ours, and friendship centres, in a more robust manner to be that bridge between emerging issues and innovative solutions. It serves Canada better to do so.

Right now we have created a set of tools. We have taken a nickel and stretched it to make a dollar, which is really what we're good at actually. But eventually we'll need to look behind the veil and we'll ask: how are we supporting aboriginal women in Canada in the long term?

Changes to matrimonial real property and the legal infrastructure in Canada are, in my opinion, long overdue. As Canada's largest aboriginal service infrastructure, the friendship centre movement will continue to be central in addressing issues related to MRP and be that vital resource to women and children relocating to urban areas.

But it goes beyond legislation. We need your assistance, we need your deep engagement, we need your recognition of our services and our partnerships, and we need to move beyond project-driven funding and build real capacity in our organizations.

This is an added comment to my notes. This is incredibly important. When we bring in pieces of legislation, they have far-reaching implications. That won't be done within one year. When people are seeking services, they're going to seek them in the urban environment and they'll be at our door, and we won't necessarily have the resources to answer all those questions. We can't do it on a project-driven basis, it's too difficult.

I'm going to cut my comments short.

Thank you, meegwetch, to all of you for your attention. I look forward to more dialogue on issues affecting urban aboriginal life.

[The Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Thank you, Mr. Cyr.

Without further ado, I now yield the floor to Ms. van der Woerd.

[Dr. Kim van der Woerd, Board Member, Metro Vancouver, Young Women's Christian Association]

Good morning. Gilakasla.

Thank you, Madam Chair and other members of the standing committee, for including our testimony on Bill S-2. Deborah Campbell sends her regrets; she's not able to make it this morning. I too would like to acknowledge the Algonquin nation, with whom you're meeting today, for having you on its territories.

My name is Kim van der Woerd. I'm a member of the 'Namgis First Nation from Alert Bay, B.C. My traditional name is T,lalisam, which is from the killer whale clan. I also serve on the board of directors with the YWCA in metro Vancouver and I'm here today to represent the YWCA.

I was speaking with my grandmother in Alert Bay about Bill S-2 and asked her if she was familiar with it, and she said she was. She told me about many situations in our community where women were removed from their homes and had nowhere to go with their children. She said that sometimes they were able to deal with this when they had family who could take them in and support them physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, as well as the financial support.

I asked her about what life was like in our community before there were rules and laws around property and housing. She told me about life when she was growing up, and she told me stories that her father would tell her. She said children grew up learning and knowing that they would build their own homes as young people and that they did not rely on government for housing. She spoke about how we were all independent before many of the laws of the Indian Act and that we were able to be independent because of the support from our communities and that the provisions were in place to be independent.

I would first like to acknowledge and recognize the positive intent with the proposed changes to this bill and the intention to improve the lives of aboriginal women. We appreciate, applaud, and respect the efforts made in this regard, and what we would like to share with you today is the YWCA's perspective on provisions that would make Bill S-2 successful.

We understand that the purpose of Bill S-2 is to provide powers to enact laws relating to the use, occupation, and possession of family homes on reserves. The bill and any resulting legislation would apply to all first nations and be implemented within 12 months of enactment. While changes to the bill have been positive with this fourth iteration, we find that there are still factors that need to be addressed.

We understand there has been opposition in the following areas that have been mentioned, from what we've been hearing already. First is the lack of first nation consultation. We recognize that we're currently in a round of consultation, but going forward we recommend open and meaningful engagement in this process. We understand that there has been opposition around jurisdiction with first nations' governments, and issues related to provincial courts and the Indian Act rules. We understand there are issues around community capacity to implement, which my colleagues have been discussing. We also recognize that there are burdens on citizens and safety considerations. Opposition to the bill highlights the complexity of violence in aboriginal communities and the need for comprehensive responses.

With respect to burdens for aboriginal women and families, the bill does not address the following considerations. There is a lack of access to emergency shelters, both on and off reserve. There is limited access to nearby and cost-appropriate legal services. There is a lack of adequate housing on reserve. There is limited access to counselling and other support services, and there is a need for infrastructure and human capacity investment that benefits aboriginal women.

I will now briefly speak about what we know about aboriginal women in Canada with respect to the experience of violence, housing, migration off reserve, and access to legal and emergency services. In 2011 the YWCA Canada commissioned a report, “Aboriginal Women's Initiative”, and some of the key findings are as follows. With respect to violence, aboriginal women experience spousal or partner violence at a rate three times higher than non-aboriginal women. With respect to housing, aboriginal women are more likely to experience homelessness than aboriginal men, and this homelessness is often related to their experience of violence and escape from violence.

We know that many aboriginal women leave reserves and our research tells us that they leave reserves because of experience of violence, difficulty in accessing services and supports, lack of housing, and discrimination in legislation around aboriginal women's rights on reserve. Many reserve communities are not located near legal services or emergency support services and this report summarizes the need for 24-hour services, increased community awareness, emergency support, and the need for transition and support services for aboriginal women and single mothers.

The YWCA is committed to ensuring that women and children are able to live safely and securely. The YWCA is the single-largest provider of shelter services to women and children fleeing violence and provides holistic programming that reaches out to more than one million women and children in Canada.

The YWCA Canada recognizes the rights of aboriginal communities to self-government. The YWCA Metro Vancouver has a long history of supporting aboriginal women and children in our community by providing tailored programs such as infant development, violence prevention, legal education, financial literacy, FASD awareness, housing, and mentorship. We have served tens of thousands of women through these programs.

The YWCA Canada is currently working with 10 member-associations on an access to justice project for aboriginal women dealing with violence. That's just under one-third of our membership. Each of these 10 member-associations have service populations of 65% aboriginal women or higher.

The YWCA Canada identifies interlocking advocacy priorities for women that complement the analysis of Bill S-2 as it applies to aboriginal women who experience domestic violence on reserve, including ending violence against women and girls, access to affordable housing, and achieving women's economic security.

Based on our services, advocacy, and research, the YWCA has the following conclusions and recommendations for ensuring the effective implementation of Bill S-2 to fully support aboriginal women and children. YWCA Canada understands that there needs to be a comprehensive response to Bill S-2 to go beyond the jurisdictional issues and address burdens for aboriginal women and families. YWCA Canada emphasizes the right of aboriginal women on and off reserve to have access to safe and secure housing and shelter, and advocates for a national housing strategy to raise awareness and support for the provision of affordable housing.

The YWCA recognizes that Bill S-2 has the following provisions. In cases of death of a spouse or partner, occupation can be granted for 180 days from the date of death, and in cases of domestic violence, the person who applies for access can be granted 90 days of occupation without the offender in the home. Our research and experience in delivering services with the YWCA finds that 90 days is not sufficient time for a woman to develop and execute a plan to lead an independent life. This is of course in the cases where the women does not hold the certificate of possession. We recommend a review of this timeframe to accommodate the complex needs of women leaving abuse. However it is appreciated that this provision can be modified on a case-by-case basis. We do note the potential additional burden for aboriginal women applying for these additional days.

The comprehensive recommendations advanced by the Assembly of First Nations and the Native Women's Association of Canada overlap with the YWCA's stated positions on violence against women and economic security. Responses must be comprehensive and consider family support services, emergency support, shelters, effective cross-jurisdictional policing, services to prevent child welfare interventions, and increased awareness of and support for affordable and appropriate housing.

Finally, we note the emphasis on legal remediation—

[The Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Madam van de Woerd, you have a bit less than a minute to conclude, please.

[Dr. Kim van der Woerd]

Great, I'm almost done.

We note the emphasis on legal remediation within Bill S-2 is in keeping with the mission of the YWCA on ending violence against women and girls. We advocate for the recognition of, and need for, prevention services and programming to work toward eradicating violence on reserve.

To conclude, YWCA Canada recognizes the positive intent of the changes within Bill S-2 and advocate for sufficient and appropriate provisions to be in place to support aboriginal women and children and ensure the efficacy of this bill.

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Thank you, Madam van der Woerd.

Before we'll continue, I want to thank all the members of the committee who allowed us the flexibility to make sure every party around the table will have at least seven minutes before we end this session. That also means that we might continue to 1:30 or 1:35, depending on when we finish. If there's anyone who needs to leave the session before the end, we understand.

Madam van der Woerd, when do you have to leave?

[Dr. Kim van der Woerd]

I leave in seven minutes.

[The Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Okay. So we will make sure that if we ask questions, we will make them short.

Thank you.

I'm turning now to Madam O'Neil Gordon for her seven minutes.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.

I want to also assure you that our government has always sent a clear message that violence against women, violence among families will not be tolerated.

As you know, I have had many consultations during our study on this, over the process of Bill S-2, and we have namely had 103 at a cost of $8 million. Now, having taught on a reserve, I have witnessed issues and seen the need to act on this and how important it is to stop violence against children, stop violence against men and women as well. That is the aim of our study and our government and our status of women committee. We need to see this proceed and carry on.

You also mentioned at one point that the emergency days cannot go beyond 90 days. I want to cover this before your time is up, Kim. This has been changed, and those 90 days can go on to whatever is decided in the court. So that is an important change, and it's important we all know that.

You also mentioned that you were speaking with your grandmother, and I was also at this point wondering if you have spoken to any other women and what was their comment. They must see some good issues in this.

This is to Kim.

[Dr. Kim van der Woerd]

Thank you for your comments. I am pleased to hear that there is that flexibility to have the additional days, should that be required, when it's required.

I have spoken to many women about this, and we actually were able to do some work on the first nation market housing fund, and that was a concern. Real property came up and then also another round of the bill, in its earlier iterations, came up as a concern in movement toward marked-based housing.

In my community and in other communities that we work in, we have had comments to the effect that it's very challenging for the chief and council to make decisions on housing around the certificate of possession. I have heard of many instances within my family and within my communities about removal from the home and the challenges that this led to.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Okay, thank you.

Are you familiar with the purpose of the section on divorce proceedings pending in subclause 43(2) in Bill S-2?

[Dr. Kim van der Woerd]

No, I'm not.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

This clause allows a court that is already hearing the spouse's divorce proceedings to address the items outlined in Bill S-2 at the same time as the divorce proceedings, and then this way spouses who are already going through a divorce will have the option to include the legal discussion and the vision of their matrimonial real property as well as the determination of the final occupation of the home. This will not create further visits to the court. The goal is to simplify the process wherever possible so that a full slate of services can be provided with one visit. I'm wondering whether you think that men and women going through a divorce should have the option to legally divide their matrimonial real property and determine who will occupy the house.

[Dr. Kim van der Woerd]

In understanding the context for this bill, I was recognizing that there is a gap within the rules that are governed in the Indian Act. There are rulings in the Constitution around the division of properties, so I was reviewing that in preparation for coming today, and I don't see why we shouldn't have that opportunity to have that discussion. The points that they include in the Constitution around the division of property and divorce proceedings states that the division of property is based on a number of factors, which should be taken into consideration where one member in the relationship is generally disadvantaged, and in this case, it's predominately the women. So they should have access to an equitable settlement in this case.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you for your comment.

I'm wondering, have you discussed with your membership the factors that must be considered before the granting of an exclusive occupation order as laid out in clause 20 of Bill S-2?

If so, what was their comment, their reaction?

[Dr. Kim van der Woerd]

I haven't had the opportunity to have more in-depth conversations.

My role was to represent the YWCA this morning and emphasize the point on the need for sufficient provisions to have an effective implementation of this bill. So I have not had that opportunity.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Have you read the bill in its current form?

[Dr. Kim van der Woerd]

I've read a summary of the bill in its current form.