Evidence of meeting #78 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vote.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
The Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe
Let us move to the preamble.
An amendment was proposed. However, before I give the floor to Ms. Ashton, I would just like to say that no amendments have been made to the bill as presented to us and it is therefore impossible for the committee to amend the preamble. To be able to do so, an aspect, any aspect, of the bill would have had to be amended beforehand. So the committee cannot amend the preamble.
Having said that, Ms. Ashton, you would like to speak to the preamble. So go ahead.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
On behalf the NDP, I'd like to express our opposition to Bill S-2. This government is not listening to first nations on a nation-to-nation basis, and we stand in solidarity with the Assembly of First Nations, the Native Women's Association of Canada, and many nations and experts across the country who have opposed this bill.
This bill will not solve the problem that it seeks to address. We know this because we have heard from the women, from the communities, and from the families whom it will affect. This bill has nothing to do with ending violence against aboriginal women, as it provides no effective, timely access to remedy. Women in remote communities have to wait for a judge or a whole court to be flown in, or have to travel hundreds of miles to a courthouse.
The New Democrats will not support any matrimonial property legislation that is not accompanied by non-legislative remedies to serious problems that, despite strong recommendation from experts such as Wendy Grant-John, are not included in the final version of Bill S-2. These include timely access to remedy; ending violence against aboriginal women through a national action plan; addressing the housing crisis on reserves, including funding for women's shelters; better access to justice, including increased funding for legal aid, especially for remote communities; lack of financial resources and time to support first nation governments to actually implement the law; and access to alternative dispute resolution.
The legislation does not respect first nations' jurisdictions and the principles of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, to which Canada is a signatory.
We acknowledge once again that proper nation-to-nation consultation has not taken place. We are also very concerned by the process the government has insisted on following throughout this committee. We are opposed to the way debate was shut down time and time again. We oppose the fact that so many witnesses were not able to make it here, because this government insisted on bringing in time allocation on a very important bill. We oppose the fact and consider it gravely disrespectful that the Native Women's Association, for example, was only given eight minutes to speak to this committee without any time for questions and answers, something that was unfortunately a pattern faced by so many organizations coming to this committee.
We acknowledge that the government witnesses often received far more time than witnesses who had grave concerns and who represented a constituency that is deeply impacted by Bill S-2. We stand in opposition to Bill S-2 as it is, and we believe it is a grave injustice by this government to first nations across Canada.
Thank you.
NDP
NDP
The Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe
One moment, please.
Ms. Bateman, are you raising a point of order or asking a question?
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
I do not wish to raise a point of order, but I am just wondering about something. We have now passed all the clauses. At this stage, can the opposition party and the third party talk about their differences of opinion? What is going on?
NDP
The Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe
Ms. Bateman, thank you for your question about the committee's procedure.
The clause-by-clause consideration of the bill includes the study of the preamble. The preamble must be agreed to by the committee. Since we did the same for each clause of the bill, we can debate the preamble according to the rule adopted by this committee, meaning that every party has a maximum of five minutes to express its opinion on the preamble before us.
So that is where we are. Then, when the debate is over, we will move to the vote to see if the committee wishes to adopt the preamble.
Conservative
Conservative
NDP
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Thank you.
In discussing the preamble to this bill, we are unfortunately and gravely having to address the fact that the objectives of the bill are timely and important and that addressing violence against women and issues of fairness is hugely important, but that most of the witnesses have been very, very clear that this bill will not address the problem as set out.
The process has been a travesty in that we have had to study a bill by first determining on what day we would do clause by clause, and then had to try to fit the witnesses in-between, regardless of extra meetings—which obviously have been interfered with by votes—and by our not actually getting to ask a question, in my case, of the Assembly of First Nations, and by the fact that the Native Women's Association only had eight minutes.
This has not been a good process. As members of Parliament, we do not believe we've been able to do our job with due diligence on this bill, a bill that indigenous senators have spoken of with grave, grave concerns. Our having to accept this bill being sent to this committee, which is not the responsibility of the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs, despite the legislation being introduced by that minister, has been a grave, grave error. Also, the way the committee and the parliamentary secretary have organized the work plan for this has been irresponsible, in that it is not right that the first thing you do is to decide what day you'll do clause by clause and then figure out how you will jam in the witnesses, such that even the people affected by this bill have not had a proper opportunity to speak.
But worse than that, there is the attitude of the members opposite, who have clearly not listened to the grave, grave implications of imposing this bill on the people affected by this bill, and who voted down a clause that would have given at least 36 months to first nations to have a chance to be able to put something in place themselves. It is just so disappointing that Parliament has reached this low in terms of what we were sent here to do as members of Parliament, which is to listen to the witnesses and then make amendments based on what the witnesses have told us. This is not some predetermined, father-knows-best approach to legislation, which, as we've heard time and time again, has not reflected the wishes of first nations in this country, and certainly not of first nation women.
I am very, very sorry that the members opposite don't seem to understand their jobs and that we are in this position today of having this bill rammed through in short order, with serious, serious flaws that will not protect first nation women and not meet the ideals articulated in the preamble of this bill.
NDP
The Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe
Thank you, Ms. Bennett.
Mrs. Day, you have two and a half minutes.
NDP
Anne-Marie Day NDP Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would like to point out a number of things.
First, when the members from the six First Nations were here in committee, we were called to vote in the House twice, so we were not able to hear from them.
Second, I would like to point out that this bill changes the nature of property in the bands, and it is an affront to Aboriginal communities.
In addition, the communities are asking for more time. The NDP asked that we give communities more time to organize themselves in accordance with the provisions in this bill, but that will not happen. Yet it is not easy to have access to judges or justice when you are in the far north and communication with more urban communities is not easy. That will create major problems.
Furthermore, this bill has been linked to domestic violence and the protection of families and children. But who will be kicked out, when 12 to 14 people live in the same house, including the parents and grandparents, both maternal and paternal? If the responsibility is given to the mother, will the mother-in-law be thrown out? Where will she stay? That does not factor in the lack of housing or the fact that these people need structures such as shelters and women's centres. They also need adapted and rapid transit between their homes and places where they can have timely access to justice. None of those problems will be addressed by this bill.
The bill introduces private ownership in the bands, band councils and territories. It changes the law for the people who live there, without consideration for their own paths or their own laws. None of that is being done in cooperation with the communities, which need our support as legislators.
NDP
The Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe
Thank you, Mrs. Day.
Seeing that no one else wishes to speak to the preamble, we will move to the vote.
Shall the preamble carry?
NDP
The Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe
We are now looking at the title of the bill.
Since no one wishes to speak to it, we will move to the vote.
Shall the title carry?
NDP
NDP
The Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe
I inform the committee that, as the chair of the committee, I will introduce the bill to the House this week. It will very likely be tomorrow, Wednesday.
That brings us to the end of the committee's agenda.
I would just like to let the members of the committee know that, at the next meeting of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, next Thursday, we will meet to continue the study on sexual harassment in the workplace and we will hear from witnesses. The agenda has already been circulated. So you can see what to expect at the next meeting.
Once again, I would like to thank our guests for coming to offer their support and advice.
The meeting is adjourned.