Evidence of meeting #80 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sexual.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe
Sorry to interrupt you. Time has expired.
I'm now turning to Madame James.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair, and welcome to our guests.
Hopefully, I'll get to the other witnesses, but my first questions will be directed to the law society.
In your remarks you talked about a report from 2012 that covered nine years. You mentioned there had been 550 complaints against lawyers, three against articling students, and six against paralegals. You went on to say more than half the complaints were made by women and half the complaints were on sex discrimination.
Can you expand on that to tell me whether sexual harassment incidents were also included under sex discrimination, and perhaps give an example of what a sex discrimination complaint would be versus one that you would consider to be sexual harassment?
11:50 a.m.
Equity Advisor, Equity Initiatives Department, Law Society of Upper Canada
Yes, you're quite right that sex discrimination did include sexual harassment. About half the complaints on sexual discrimination were sexual harassment complaints. A sexual discrimination complaint would be, for example, someone who is pregnant in the workplace and is not provided with the same professional development opportunities as someone else because of pregnancy and the fact that the person will be off for maternity or parental leave.
The sexual harassment type of complaints that the discrimination and harassment counsel gets could be, for example, a lawyer asking a client to go out with him in return for pro bono services or an assistant to go out with him in return for workplace benefits. So sexual harassment can go from asking someone out repeatedly to sexual assault or groping, inappropriate sexual touching.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
Thank you.
Just offhand, if you have this information, out of all those that were reported, the 550, plus the x number and x number, how many of those were actually substantiated or deemed to have merit?
11:50 a.m.
Equity Advisor, Equity Initiatives Department, Law Society of Upper Canada
The discrimination and harassment counsel does not investigate. She can informally deal with matters or mediate a situation, but she does not investigate. So I cannot tell you how many have been substantiated.
11:50 a.m.
Equity Advisor, Equity Initiatives Department, Law Society of Upper Canada
What she does is provide options.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
Thank you.
You actually mentioned an example of someone who might offer services, legal services for sexual services or sexual whatever, and I'm just referencing an article that was in the Canadian Lawyer magazine, and the title of the article was “Legal services are not to be bartered for sexual favours”.
I just wanted to ask you a question. What do you do, what does the Law Society of Upper Canada do, with lawyers or paralegals or others who are convicted of sexual harassment? What is your role in that, and what kind of recourse do you take?
11:50 a.m.
Equity Advisor, Equity Initiatives Department, Law Society of Upper Canada
The rules of professional conduct prohibit sexual harassment. A complainant could file a complaint with the Law Society under the rules of professional conduct, and those cases we investigate and the matter may come to discipline. Once the matter comes to discipline, if the matter is substantiated, there could be any type of impact or repercussion on the lawyer's career. So the lawyer may be suspended for a few months or disbarred, for example.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
In this particular case that was in that magazine, there was a quote there that went on to say, “we think sexual harassment should only rarely, if ever, result in a reprimand rather than a period of suspension”.
In this particular case that I'm referencing, I believe that he only had a reprimand. There might have been a fine attached to that. But to me that particular incident seems pretty.... I don't know. Someone who is a lawyer and offers up that kind of a deal on the table, I just don't understand why a reprimand was used in this particular case.
I wonder if you could comment on that, please.
11:50 a.m.
Equity Advisor, Equity Initiatives Department, Law Society of Upper Canada
Actually I can't really comment on a case that has been decided by a discipline panel. I'll tell you that a discipline panel sits with three adjudicators. An appeal panel may review the decision of the discipline panel and that would be a decision of five adjudicators.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
Someone who has been convicted of this particular instance, or this individual, how can a client, for example, I or anyone in this room who needs to seek the advice...? Hopefully I don't need to seek the advice of a lawyer or legal services. But how do we, the public, find out whether someone has been implicated or charged or convicted of such an offence? For me personally, I wouldn't want to go to a lawyer who has been charged with that.
Is there any way that I can find that out?
11:55 a.m.
Equity Advisor, Equity Initiatives Department, Law Society of Upper Canada
Yes. The Law Society of Upper Canada has a registry of lawyers and paralegals. If you look for the name of that person, it's on our website. It is available to the public. It will tell you whether or not that person has been disciplined and the reasons for the order.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
Thank you.
How long does that information exist out there on your website or the registry? I'm just wondering, is it cleared? Is it after three years, five years, 10 years? Or is it there for eternity?
11:55 a.m.
Equity Advisor, Equity Initiatives Department, Law Society of Upper Canada
I don't have that answer, but I can get it for you, if you wish.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
If I could have that information forwarded to the committee, I'd appreciate it.
Can I ask how much longer I have?
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
Very quickly, I just want to direct my question over to our guests who are present.
My colleague Ms. O'Neill Gordon mentioned about training for youth. It's my understanding that you offer workshops for youth. Is that correct?
May 28th, 2013 / 11:55 a.m.
Legal Director, Women's Legal Education and Action Fund
We have in the past. We don't have funding to do so currently. It's certainly something that we would love to do again, but we can't do presently.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
Thank you.
I had one more question. Actually just going back to the law society, you had mentioned that you do mediation through informal processes, and I just wanted to comment on that. I know my time is running out.
We've had a number of witnesses say that the earlier you get to an issue such as sexual harassment, ideally if you can deal with it informally, it's actually a better method to take than allowing it to escalate and having to go through formal processes. Would you agree with that statement?
11:55 a.m.
Equity Advisor, Equity Initiatives Department, Law Society of Upper Canada
I agree with that statement. I have to say, though, that the DHC mediates only if the two parties consent. So I agree with that.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
