Evidence of meeting #21 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
NDP
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Thank you very much to all of you for coming and speaking so passionately about this very important issue.
I wanted to just finish off and continue on with where Ms. Crockatt was questioning you, Alex. Your mother says hello. I saw her yesterday.
Just to say Catalyst has been around—I was actually fortunate enough to attend some of the Catalyst events in New York, so I'm aware of the organization and what they do, and how much of an impact they've had in the United States. In Canada, of course, it's been a little slower because they came here a little later—20 years as opposed to 50 or 60, or whatever.
The question I have for you, actually, is this. Given the economic imperative that you outlined for us that women on boards and women in senior positions have proven to have a positive impact on increasing business and returns for businesses, why aren't you getting more people running to your gates to sign up for the Catalyst accord, and all of that sort of thing?
Executive Director, Catalyst Canada Inc.
I'll say three things. One, I'm always amazed when I'm driving how often my kids remind me to put my seat belt on. I'm an adult. I know the stats. I understand very fully how important it is for me to have my seat belt on. I care about my health because of my children, and still, halfway through the drive they say, “Mom, you're not wearing your seat belt”. Just because we have the information, just because we've internalized the information, it doesn't mean it leads to a behavioural change.
Secondly, a lot of these patterns have been around for a very long time. Until you point out to someone that the list of people they're sponsoring are all Asian men and you're an Asian man, I don't think that person would have thought of it. I think that a lot of these patterns are very—it's well-trodden ground and cultural change is challenging.
I think the third thing is leadership and making the time for this, from a competitiveness perspective, as business leaders or organizational leaders. I think all the information is there, but I think continuing to give people a push to do their part in contributing fully to the Canadian economy is important.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Let me respond to that and probe a little bit deeper, though. You outlined three things, right? The first one was around awareness.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
But you've been at this for 20 years, so are you saying that you've been ineffective in your awareness? Or is there more that government, as you said earlier, as a convenor, or even legislators could do in that regard?
I just want you to think about that a little bit. If you have some thoughts or some best practices or something that you want to propose, you can certainly do it through the women's network, of course. But you can also submit additional information to this committee in our study here.
Conservative
Executive Director, Catalyst Canada Inc.
Behavioural change. Patterns that are very well-established patterns—
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Therefore, I'd like to ask, MBA programs and senior management courses that everybody at those levels take, are they not sort of giving people that lens to look through to say, “Why aren't you guys considering this or not?” Is that learning not happening at those senior levels, and why not?
Executive Director, Catalyst Canada Inc.
I can't say definitively, but I suspect, no. We always say that we don't have impact; companies have impact. So we're there and we'll provide the information. We'll provide the support. Ultimately, we're not moving the numbers. Companies and business leaders are moving the numbers, so our objective is to support the heck out of them in doing that.
Behavioural change can be hard to come by. I think it's happening a bit more quickly now. But I do think that—I don't like to say it takes time, but finally we have the right kind of pressure that's changing the conversation fairly dramatically.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
But if I was a shareholder in any one of those Fortune 500 companies, I would be asking my leaders why they aren't producing more returns for me. If this is a tangible benefit to your moving further along in this area, why isn't that out there?
Executive Director, Catalyst Canada Inc.
We've had all the information for so long, and the thing that's really created a shift is the international context. I always say that we didn't find religion early; we found religion midstream. I'm glad we found it, and I'm glad we're actually starting to have a much more meaningful conversation. I can't tell you why things stagnated for 20 years—and they really did stagnate. But I suspect.... If you just look at boards, we had a CEO summit in New York in December with 60 CEOs. There was no consensus on what the right strategies were, and different information sharing, but what became clear is the network that gets people onto boards is very powerful. That network has existed for decades.
Executive Director, Catalyst Canada Inc.
Cracking that network is very tough, and individuals would say, “I want someone I trust; typically I get names from a network of people I trust”, and they're often the same names. It's only in the last two or three years that they're starting to say, “I don't want to get the same names over and over again”, but that was so well established that reshifting it takes a lot of work, and it's not just information. It really is taking that information—
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Would you say we've done that, we've cracked that nut in Canada? Is it bursting wide open, or is it still a very fine crack and we have to jackhammer that a little bit?
Executive Director, Catalyst Canada Inc.
We made a really good crack in that. Yes, I think we're on our way—I really do—but we're only seeing shifts in numbers. Numbers have not taken off. I'll get you that chart, and it will knock your socks off.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Please submit that to us, and any additional information.
Do I have more time, Madam Chair?
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
I just want to address some things that Ms. McInturff has said.
You said earlier in your testimony that 0.03% of the federal budget for the status of women committee, etc., was not enough. Are you aware that earlier, from other testimony we had from the department and other departments, that it is just this one little department within the federal government? The federal government is very big. We expend program dollars in all kinds of different areas, whether it's Industry Canada, Employment Canada; hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars that do focus on women's programming, whether it's skills training, whether it's targeted programming for aboriginal women, etc., but it's across the board. Unfortunately these funds are not captured, and we've asked the department, in fact, to capture them all, across all departments in government.
So I just want to let you be aware of the fact that it's not 0.03%. It's because this is a very tiny department. However, when you look across all government departments, all government levels, there's a substantive contribution. In addition, not even including the international work we have done.... Let me point to the human trafficking area, where we—as a strategy—have put in $25 million, and that is primarily women and children.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Let me also point to the maternal health and children area—
