Status of Women Committee on Nov. 4th, 2014

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Is there a specific way that you would extend that? Is there one program which you think should be expanded?

[JudyLynn Archer]

The Canada job grant. The Canada job grant has no living costs attached to it. In our case, for example, when we're training we can work with employers. Employers are absolutely willing and ready to step up and contribute to the training costs of individuals. They will not pay the living costs for individuals. They will not pay for child care, transportation, any of those kinds of costs. Those costs are not associated typically with men; they are associated with women, so women are being left out of the picture of the Canada job grant.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you very much, Ms. Archer.

Mrs. Ambler for five minutes.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Thank you to all three of our wonderful presenters today. We very much appreciate your coming to inform our study.

Ms. Archer, I want to thank you for your presentation and for bringing your unique perspective to us. In particular, the numbers that you gave us, the statistics, were enlightening and surprising. Your program sees a 127% increase in income on the first day of employment. That is very impressive, and it's a little bit sad that 5,000 women have come through your doors but that you can only help 120. Thank you for sharing that information with us.

Can you tell us what your program does exactly? How do you achieve that kind of success, the increase in income from day one? Why do women need training but men do not to get into the construction industry?

[JudyLynn Archer]

First, with regard to the increase in income, for women who are coming into our programs and heading into an apprenticeship, into a trade, the average increase is 127% on day of hire. For women who are coming into our programs and going into some of the other areas of construction, such as heavy equipment operating, that average income increase is 169% on day of hire. Just to make sure, I've differentiated between those two: the increase is significant no matter what she goes into.

If you take a look at the average income of a woman working full time in Canada, it's approximately $32,000 a year. When you compare that with a person working in the construction industry, it would be triple that, at minimum. This industry provides incredible opportunity. It comes with no student debt, a way to earn as you learn, and a way to make an income that most women would not dream about.

Why do women need training and men don't? I can't remember the young woman's name, but she said it best: it's just the way it is. This is a predominantly male industry, 96% men. It has just been the natural way of things, the natural order of life, that men have walked into these jobs. They walk into these jobs every single day and are hired. The standards to which they are held are much lower than the standards to which women are held. Women definitely must be much better than to be seen as good as.

In terms of our success, our success rate is 90% or greater, consistently, with women coming into our programs. That's because we understand the challenges that women face in this industry. We seek out women who have tenacity. They need to have smarts and all of that, but they need to have tenacity, perseverance, and the objective to succeed. We select carefully the women we're going to train.

Let me just tell you that if we train a woman and she ends up over in one of the big companies, if she doesn't work out, then that company will not come back to our organization and hire another woman. That's the reality.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Of the 5,000—

[JudyLynn Archer]

So why train women...?

I'm sorry.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

No, it's okay. I didn't want to interrupt; I just wanted to know how many of those 5,000 women would be good candidates or good fits for your program, who would have that tenacity and a willingness to learn.

[JudyLynn Archer]

I would say two-thirds.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

What does the program do? What are you teaching? How long does it last? What do you ask of them?

[JudyLynn Archer]

The first step in the program consists of awareness, helping women understand what these opportunities are and what realities come along with these opportunities. This is not for every man or woman.

The second step is to help women make a well-informed decision before coming into this industry.

Third, we provide hands-on skills training: welding, electrical, pipe-fitting, whatever. We provide the hands-on skills training, but most importantly, we provide workplace culture awareness training that helps women understand the industry, the predominantly male environment, and how to thrive within that environment.

Last, we do job matching. We help every woman who comes through our program find a job that will be successful for her and the company. We provide ongoing coaching to ensure that each woman who goes into an apprenticeship actually becomes a registered apprentice and successfully completes her first year of technical training in the shortest allowable timeframe.

Those are the key—

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you. Those are the keys to success.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

That sounds like a great program

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Sellah, you have five minutes.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First of all, I would like to apologize for arriving a little late.

I would like to thank the witnesses for enlightening us with their testimony and their personal experiences. We are all aware that gender equality is not universally respected and applied. We are still far from achieving pay equity, and gender-specific equality is even further away. We know that we must remain vigilant if we are to maintain the progress that has been made.

My question is for Ms. Roy.

I would like to tell you that I am very impressed. I congratulate you for your journey. I will ask you a simple question.

Has it been difficult for you, as a woman, to make your voice heard? Have you sensed any discrimination? Do you feel that it would have been easier for you to achieve certain things if you were a man?

Meanwhile, you said that day cares can be very useful for ensuring the prosperity of women. You are not the first to say that to the committee. Indeed, women entrepreneurs have spoken to us of the challenges of finding child care. Some even said that they started their business at home so that they could look after their children.

Our party is offering voters universal day care access. I would like to hear your comments on this.

And finally, I would like to know if both sexes are well represented at the University of Ottawa, and if so, does that encourage equal participation?

[Anne-Marie Roy]

Thank you.

In terms of the challenge of making my voice heard, I would say that all women face certain prejudices, even if sexism is sometimes subtle. Yes, I have faced certain obstacles.

In meetings, for example, we are regularly interrupted by men. We always need to fight a little harder, yell a little louder to be heard. I have also experienced sexual comments and attacks aimed at degrading me or taking away the credibility that I had earned on my campus. So yes, there are certainly challenges in this area.

As for representation at the University of Ottawa, I think that there is a link that can be made with the next subject. I will speak to the question of day cares immediately after. I think that the University of Ottawa is making an effort, but I have noticed that when postsecondary institutions look at the issue of sexism and gender equality, they often seem to be more concerned with their image and with public relations than with going to the trouble of investing in programs or approaches that will truly allow female students to reach the same status as their male classmates. The people from the University of Ottawa will tell you that they are making efforts in this area, but I think that their actions are mainly focused on preserving the University's image and maintaining a certain status in society.

Finally, I think that a universal day care program is truly necessary. As I mentioned in my statement, it is women who are often responsible for dependants, children. A program like this would certainly promote the status of women in its broadest sense. As we have seen in certain cities—including Ottawa— municipalities decide to raise barriers that prevent female students from accessing funding for day care. In my opinion, a universal approach would eliminate this problem, as well as all the challenges that we face when we try to obtain funding for day cares.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

I would now invite Ms. Young to take the floor. She will have five minutes.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

I'd like to echo the comments of my colleagues and thank you all for such interesting and insightful presentations. I'd love to spend a day with each of you, but unfortunately that's not possible.

I'm going to be very focused because I have questions for all of you. If you could keep your answers really brief and to the point, I would really appreciate that. Of course you know that you can send supplementary information to this committee if you think of something later or you come across something that will enrich this study.

I want to start with Ms. Roy, because that is where our youth are starting to branch out, and all of that.

As you may know, I have had seven foster children, one stepdaughter, and twins of my own, so I think that probably makes me the parent in this room who has put the most people through university and watched them and that sort of thing. In addition to that, I've done mentorship for many decades. My colleague across is right that we've been talking about this for a good 20 or 30 years.

Just to springboard off all that, I have some very specific questions.

Ms. Roy, your presentation was fascinating. However, it did not focus very specifically on our subject, which is economic prosperity and leadership. I am wondering with regard to a student body if you capture other aspects. Universities are large. There are all these different sectors and specialties, etc. I don't know if the University of Ottawa has a business school. I don't know if that business school, for example, is tied to the Canadian Youth Business Foundation, to which our government gave $20 million to help youth kick-start businesses. How does a university or a student body, or my daughter who's going to be entering university next year, get that information, support, programming, etc., to find her way through to start her own business?

[Anne-Marie Roy]

Universities are definitely sometimes hard to navigate, so it's certainly good when we see grants from the government that encourage youth to go into entrepreneurship. However, one of the challenges students often talk about on campuses when talking about their future and wanting to start up businesses is that student debt is a big deterrent. It prohibits many students from starting their business to begin with, but also from having access to additional sources of funding or applying for loans to start up a business. That's one of the reasons in my presentation I discussed a lot—

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

No, but here's a grant of $20 million. There's money there, and this is just one of many we've heard about on this committee. In addition, there are all kinds of businesses that provide grants, etc., as we've heard from Ms. McDonald. I'm not saying it's a beautiful and perfect world out there; it's not, but these things are available.

Maybe you can send this in to us. That would be very helpful, because we are very interested in knowing how to connect with our youth. As we all know, it's some of these younger businesses with the innovation and new ideas, as Ms. McDonald was saying earlier, that are building our new businesses here in Canada. Please send in to us any information you would have as the president of the student federation of the university. Plus, you may be associated with or connected to other universities. If we could find out what the universities are doing to promote and encourage prosperity and leadership in young Canadian women, that would be really great.

Ms. McDonald, you talked about mentorship. I myself received some great mentorship. At those moments when you're running a small business.... I also ran a small business for about 20 years, and unlike Chrystia's mother, my mother did not speak English. She raised seven children, and that was her thing. Around the dinner table, as you can imagine, I didn't get a lot of coaching on starting or running a small business. However, I succeeded regardless of all of that. I think mentorship and having the support of your family and community are really important to achieve that.

How do we kick that up a notch? You've already given us some great ideas. We've been doing mentorship. I myself have been a mentor in formal programs at the YWCA and so on for a long time. How do we kick that up a notch, or is it already happening? We've also heard from other witnesses that there are some amazing programs going on. Maybe we just need to cross-fertilize and learn this across Canada, because there is obviously a lot going on. You're three people today, but we've heard from lots of others. Where is it that it seems people are still not getting their information, or knowing how to reach out to Catalyst?

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Ms. McDonald, a very brief answer, please.

[Janice McDonald]

There are two things. Mentorship is happening across the country, but I think we can still do a better job in letting women know how to access it and the host of opportunities that exist. As I mentioned, there is Futurpreneur, and Startup Canada is another one.

Also, to answer in regard to the University of Ottawa, I usually have an intern every year from its entrepreneurship program. That's one direct, simple, straightforward way that a young woman can get the kind of skill and experience she needs, by working directly with an entrepreneur.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you very much, Ms. McDonald. That was short and sweet.

Ms. Crockatt, for five minutes, please.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you so much to all of our witnesses today.

This is a fascinating time. I'm happy that we're doing this today because I am mentoring two young women who are with us today from the Boys and Girls Club. They are getting an opportunity to hear from some women with really great ideas.

I'm a huge advocate for education. I think I rival Wai because I had my own two kids when I went to university, and three nieces and nephews lived with my husband and me while pursuing their degrees.

Ms. McDonald, I'd like to first talk to you, and then go to Ms. Archer in Edmonton.

I wonder if we're fighting the last war a bit. We all want to get our kids, our girls, to university, and now we're seeing that more girls than boys are graduating in many cases.

The Financial Post had an interesting story last summer. It said that people who go to university now are earning less than they did before, that those numbers are declining, especially in the fine arts, where graduates are earning 12% less than high school graduates once they factor in the cost of their education. It speaks to Ms. Roy's point.

I wonder if we are overbalanced now in people going to university, and especially taking humanities. We've heard from Ms. Archer that women are making $60,000, $80,000, or $100,000 in skilled trades. We perhaps have to start refocusing where we're sending our girls, especially when college graduates are now inching up to higher paying jobs than university graduates.

I hope I can address that to you Ms. McDonald, and then go to Ms. Archer.