Status of Women Committee on Nov. 27th, 2014

[John Barlow, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Ms. Govender, you mentioned the No Means No program that you're offering to grade 7 students. I find this really interesting. I think it's really important that we start this education sooner rather than later. Is this a program that you're offering through B.C. education's sex-ed curriculum or is this something you're offering on your own? Is it for boys as well as girls? Can you explain that program a little bit?

[Kasari Govender]

I'll answer the second question first. It is for boys and girls. An important piece of the program is that it educates both boys and girls about the power imbalances, as I say, sexism, racism, and understanding those terms, and understanding stereotype and gender bias, for example, in the media. That's the first component of the workshop. Then we move into how those stereotypes play out in relationships. We talk about the law of sexual consent in that context, rights and obligations. We think it's really important to reach boys and girls in that context and to educate boys, for example, about what this really means. What is respectful communication? What are the rules that apply as they grow into relationships and grow into dating?

We offer the program. We're not funded through the school system, but we do offer the program in schools. It's an independent program. We promote it and get contacted by schools that want to offer the program. We are in the process of expanding into other places in the province, although right now we're mostly in the Lower Mainland and on Vancouver Island. We also sometimes offer it to community groups that have youth groups, gay and lesbian groups, immigrant groups, immigrant settlement services, and that kind of thing.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

How has the response been to the program? Have you had follow-up in terms of the impact it's had? I'm thinking that if it works, move it to other school districts. Was the response from the school division itself quite welcoming as well?

[Kasari Govender]

Yes, absolutely. We've expanded the program a lot in the last few years, and the response is increasingly positive. We introduced a new program this year called TrendShift that is based on our work, as I mentioned, our cybermisogyny work. We produced a report with recommendations. There are recommendations for the federal government in there as well.

We also created a little legal information booklet called “Is That Legal?” and did a workshop. We're getting a tremendous response on that now as well. In fact, we're booked to reach hundreds of students already in the new year. That's quite exciting. That was based on feedback we got from young people with questions such as how this law of consent applies in cyberspace, in online space, on smartphones, and what this means. Of course, that's an important space for young people to occupy, and we want to ensure that the space is productive and safe for young people when they're there.

That's also an important piece of that. We have, as I say, a really positive response in all the communities that we're in currently, and we hope to expand that program

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Govender and Mr. Barlow.

Ms. Duncan, go ahead. You have seven minutes.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for the work they do each and every day. We're enormously grateful.

I'll begin with West Coast LEAF.

Mrs. Govender, if you could make a specific recommendation to this committee that you would like to see in the committee's report, what would it be regarding the DCO list, please?

[Kasari Govender]

I don't think it's a productive tool for women in general, but I will say the specific recommendation would be to exempt women who are making gender-based persecution claims. At the very least there should be a more accountable process for the minister in designating third countries and a process by which the record on domestic violence and the laws on domestic violence, on sexual violence, on violence against women are examined to consider as to whether they actually keep women safe. That should be a key component of whether a country is designated on the DCO list.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mrs. Govender.

The second question I'll ask is, can you make a specific recommendation to the committee that you would like to see in the committee's report? What would it be regarding conditional permanent status?

[Kasari Govender]

It would be that the conditional permanent status provisions be revoked. The federal government has not provided conclusive evidence that there is a widespread fraud problem, which is the justification for this provision, or really significantly, that this provision actually is going to prevent marriage fraud. I should be more specific: marriage fraud in immigration. There really isn't a strong purpose for it, and it should be revoked entirely.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you. You would like to see it be revoked.

With regard to cybermisogyny, the government has passed legislation in the area of cyberbullying. I'm wondering what your opinion is on that legislation.

[Kasari Govender]

Sure. You know, it is passed. My feeling about it is there are some really good provisions in it about criminalizing the non-consensual sharing of intimate images. I think that is positive. I think it's unfortunate that it was coupled with provisions that look like they may very well contravene the charter around rights to privacy. It's unfortunate because I think that the legislation will likely be challenged in court and it will ultimately delay the application of what I think is a very positive development which, as I say, is the criminalization of the non-consensual sharing of images.

I would have liked to see that bill split in order for the piece that's positive to progress on its own in a way which I think everybody agrees with, that this is a really important provision to have in there and to criminalize directly, because there are no other laws that can do what that provision does, and it was really necessary to get through. I am concerned that the entire piece of legislation will be bogged down in litigation as it goes forward. I would have liked to see the provisions that probably will violate rights to privacy separated and to have a separate debate.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

If you could make a recommendation to the committee regarding cyberbullying, what would it be?

[Kasari Govender]

There are a lot of recommendations in our report. I'm happy to send it to the committee, and I will do that.

There is probably one I would draw the committee's attention to, if that's your question. It is the creation of a new position that is funded through Status of Women Canada but is independent from government. It would be responsible for examining and doing law reform recommendations and presenting to Parliament on what those reforms would look like. It would also think more deeply about how we regulate the Internet in a way that doesn't infringe on privacy and doesn't restrict the creative potential of the Internet, which is great and vast, and also the significance of the Internet in young people's lives. At the same time it would figure out a way to keep it safe and to regulate social media and to regulate advertisers, for example, on online comment spaces in a way that allows women to have freedom of expression in the same way that men have on the Internet.

It is important to look at this issue not from a perspective of how much we can restrict freedom of speech but how we can make the Internet a safe space for women to have freedom of speech.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Steacy of CASAC, you mentioned that the criminal justice response to rape is unacceptable. Do you have suggestions for change for this committee?

[Lisa Steacy]

One thing I tried to point out in my presentation was that the law, largely thanks to the work of women and women's groups, actually is a pretty good law with regard to consent and what rape is. Unfortunately, the recommendation would be an acknowledgement that the vast majority of reports of sexual assaults are lost or deemed unfounded at the initial police level, so something has to change about the way that police respond to women's initial reports and they need to conduct swift, thorough, and timely investigations into those reports.

The rape myths we've heard so much about and that pervade the way sexual assault is investigated, prosecuted and defended are probably one of the largest factors that serve to dismiss women when they go forward and speak out about what has happened to them, so, although the Criminal Code definition of consent is very clear, the police, when they're investigating rape, still use the excuse of “he said, she said; we can't prove it”, and all of those sorts of things.

I don't know if that is helpful.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you very much.

I will now give the floor to Ms. O'Neill Gordon for five minutes.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

I want to thank all of you for being with us today. We certainly appreciate your words of advice and information as our committee continues to work toward preventing violence against women and learning the best practices.

My first question is for Jocelynn Cook.

In your presentation you mentioned how environmental conditions can affect a woman's brain and can even affect a child's development in later years. I was happy to hear you say that one of the goals of this organization is to increase the education of women on health issues affecting them and their families, which is something we really need to bring to the forefront and to have a special emphasis on.

Could you please provide some initiatives taken to increase the education of women on health issues affecting them and their families? What were some of the initiatives taken?

[Dr. Jocelynn Cook]

The SOGC has a number of really popular websites that we use. We just won an award for our new pregnancy website. We also have a SexualityandU website, a menopause website. We are always creating and updating evidence-based materials to put on those websites to reach women and families about issues related to women's reproductive health.

That's one way we do things: through websites. We have social media; we do Twitter, which I'm not good at. We do conferences and workshops. We're trying to do some more webinars. We have a public education initiative to educate women about reproductive health issues.

One thing I didn't mention that I think is important is we do a lot of work internationally. Our organization has a global health division. We talk a lot about reproductive rights and helping women understand their reproductive rights. We're working as well to integrate reproductive rights material in the Canadian training for obstetrical care that we offer for obstetricians, gynaecologists, family doctors, midwives, and nurses in Canada as well as abroad. That's really important.

We've done something interesting with the SexualityandU website. We targeted a survey on that website for youth to look at: what they feel they need in terms of information around reproductive health and sexuality. We have about 700 responses right now. We are using the data to provide different types of information and in different formats. We do have a lot going on that I didn't touch on.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

That's good to hear. Congratulations on your winnings, and I'm sure there are others like me; I'm not into Twitter.

We certainly appreciate all you have done.

How do you feel about the overall outcomes? Are all of them positive? I know with youth, it's really good.

[Dr. Jocelynn Cook]

Yes, and I think that the changing.... Again the web and the whole cyberspace issues that have been talked about today, I think with a lot of cultural issues that we're experiencing related to women's reproductive health, we're trying to understand how we work best with care providers and provide them with training opportunities and the tools and the resources they need to be able to do their job well. We reach out to women through all the different emerging media and ways that are possible.

So I think so. I think we've had great feedback. There are things we can always do differently, but the more we understand issues and how they affect women's reproductive health, I think through research and through evidence, the more we can do to effectively improve outcomes. We're committed to that.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

The more you have out there, the more helpful it is for women. They have a place to go, which I think is very good.

Also the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada is known to have two global initiatives: the aboriginal health initiative and to advance culturally safe health and healing for aboriginal women. What steps have been taken to meet initiatives in this area as well?

[Dr. Jocelynn Cook]

We have a very active membership and a committee on aboriginal health initiatives. They've developed guidelines for working with aboriginal women, which I didn't bring today but I'm happy to provide. They spent a couple of years developing best practices for working specifically with aboriginal women. Right now they're starting to look at things related to mental health issues, to gestational diabetes and risk factors for that. They have a number of initiatives that are very specific to the field of aboriginal health.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

That's good.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you.

Thank you very much. That was very interesting.

Ms. Ashton, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Dr. Cook, I was very interested in the work that you and your organization do to promote reproductive health, which is obviously a critical issue linked to women's health. As you may know, it has also been difficult to make sure there's federal funding both here at home, but more importantly abroad. Sadly we have a very narrow prescription from this government on what reproductive health includes, and sadly, too many times it excludes access to abortion and access to information on abortion. We know that the lack of access is also intertwined with the violence women face.

I'm wondering if you could speak to your perspective on social determinants which has come out through your presentation. Could you speak to the role of poverty when it comes to the barriers that women face, the propensity to face violence as a result of those marginalized situations and how that ultimately affects their health? Do we need to address poverty when we talk about violence against women?