Status of Women Committee on March 24th, 2015

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Good morning everyone. Welcome to the 51st meeting of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee, we are beginning a study on women in skilled trades and science, technology, engineering and mathematics occupations. Today marks the first meeting in our study.

Today, we're pleased to have with us, from the Department of Employment and Social Development, Jonathan Will, Director General of the Economic Policy Directorate; and Catherine Scott, Director General of the Labour Market Integration, Skills and Employment Branch. From the Department of Citizenship and Immigration, we have Maia Welbourne, Director General of Strategic Policy and Planning; Matthew Graham, Acting Director of the Immigration Branch; and Louis Dumas, Director of the Ottawa Case Processing Centre. From Status of Women Canada, we have Linda Savoie Senior Director General of the Women's Program and Regional Operations Directorate. And lastly, from the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada, we have Janet Walden, Chief Operating Officer; and Serge Villemure, Director of the Scholarships and Fellowships Division.

Thank you all for joining us today. Each group will have 10 minutes for their presentation.

Starting us off will be the officials from the Department of Employment and Social Development.

[Jonathan Will, Director General, Economic Policy Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and distinguished members of the committee.

I'm here with my colleague, Catherine Scott, to speak to you about women in skilled trades and STEM occupations. Over the past few decades, Canadian women have made considerable progress and are world leaders in both educational attainment and labour market performance.

Looking first to education, as of 2013, 56% of new post-secondary graduates were women, outnumbering men at the college, undergraduate, and master's levels. While women continue to trail men in graduation at the doctoral level, this gap is closing. Today women make up just under half of Canada's Ph.D. graduates. Canada is a world leader in female participation in education with the highest rate of post-secondary attainment among OECD countries for 25- to 64-year-old women in 2012.

Women have also made significant advances in the labour market. Over the past 30 years, the overall female employment rate has risen from 48% to 58%. Currently, women account for approximately 48% of all workers in Canada.

Internationally, Canadian women currently have the 5th highest labour force participation rate and the 7th highest employment rate in the OECD. While women have made significant advances, some areas of concern remain.

At the post-secondary level, women continue to be under-represented in the science, technology, engineering, and mathematics fields, commonly referred to as STEM. ln 2013 just over 30% of post-secondary students in STEM fields were women. Female under-representation is particularly acute in architecture, engineering and related technologies, and mathematics, computer, and information sciences. Women represent a slim majority in agriculture, natural resources and conservation, physical and life sciences, and technologies.

We also know that some young women are choosing not to pursue STEM fields of study—in other words, science, technology, engineering and math—despite outperforming their male counterparts in high school.

This situation has important economic implications for Canada. STEM skills are essential to productivity-enhancing innovation. If a significant portion of the population is not fully represented in the STEM talent pool, this could negatively affect Canada's ability to innovate and grow.

In addition, earnings in STEM occupations are typically higher than in non-STEM occupations.

ESDC projections show that the occupations expected to be in shortage over the next decade are more likely to have low rates of female participation than non-shortage occupations. Almost half of all occupations projected to be in shortage are male dominated, while only one-quarter are female dominated. The remaining quarter has a relatively equal mix of men and women. STEM and the skilled trades comprise 34% of the projected shortage occupations.

These findings clearly show that supporting employment in high-demand occupations and addressing the under-representation of women can be highly complementary priorities.

At ESDC, a number of recent measures have been taken to support employment in high-demand occupations, including STEM and the skilled trades.

A key means of addressing the under-representation of women is by supporting access to post-secondary education, a requirement for many occupations that represent non-traditional jobs for women.

The Canada student loans program provides financial assistance to post-secondary students with demonstrated financial need through the provision of loans and grants. Women make up 60% of the recipients.

ESDC is also helping young men and women to access post-secondary education through the support it provides to Pathways to Education, an organization with an established record of raising post-secondary enrolment among disadvantaged youth.

ln addition to supporting access to post-secondary education, ESDC has a number of other measures in place to help Canadians develop job-relevant skills and find employment, including in high-demand occupations such as STEM and the skilled trades. ESDC has taken action to directly support job relevant skills development with the introduction of the Canada job grant, which links training directly to employment.

Over $2 billion per year is provided to provinces and territories through the labour market development agreements to help unemployed Canadians quickly find and return to work, including support for women in apprenticeship training. The Government of Canada is committed to strengthening these agreements in consultation with provinces and territories to better align training with labour market demand.

ESDC has also taken steps to improve the quality of information for Canadians with respect to the labour market and apprenticeship.

The Job Bank and Working in Canada Web sites have been consolidated to offer Canadians a convenient single point of access for reliable information on job market trends, occupational profiles and job opportunities.

A new job alert system was launched in 2013 to provide Canadians with job market information up to twice daily.

Economic action plan 2014 invested $11.8 million over two years and $3.3 million per year on an ongoing basis to launch an enhanced job-matching service that is helping to ensure that Canadians are given the first chance at available jobs in their local area that match their skills.

ESDC is currently developing a web-based career tool to provide Canadians with better information about labour market outcomes by field of study. This will help to ensure that youth are able to make well-informed choices about learning and work. The main portal for learning information, CanLearn.ca, provides information and interactive tools to help Canadians pay, plan, and save for their post-secondary education.

ln addition to its suite of programs, ESDC has asked the Council of Canadian Academies to study how well Canada is prepared to meet future demand for STEM skills.

These are just some of the ways that my department is helping to ensure that women can reach their potential in Canada's learning institutions and labour market.

My colleague Catherine Scott will now speak to the importance of women's participation in the skilled trades and some of the department's relevant programs and support.

[Catherine Scott, Director General, Labour Market Integration, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development]

ln 2014, approximately 4.6 million Canadians worked in skilled trades that were designated for apprenticeship training, representing about one in four employed Canadians and about 17% of employed Canadian women. For the past few decades, women participating in apprenticeship systems have remained largely within the hairstyling and food services trades.

ln 2012, female apprentices accounted for about 14% of all registered apprentices. This is up 40% from 2008, when there were fewer than 45,000 women apprentices. While the absolute number of women remains small, there are some encouraging signs of growth in some in-demand, rewarding, and non-traditional career choices for women.

Key among federal supports for apprentices are the apprenticeship grants, which encourage Canadians to pursue and complete apprenticeship training in Red Seal trades. Through these cash grants, apprentices receive up to $4,000, which can be used to pay for tuition, tools or other training-related expenses.

Federal ad campaigns over the past few years have targeted women through the use of real-life testimonials of women who work in the trades and benefit from the apprenticeship grants.

Launched in January, the Canada apprentice loan allows apprentices registered in the Red Seal trades to apply for interest-free loans of up to $4,000 per period of block release technical training.

The flexibility and innovation in apprenticeship technical training pilot project that was launched in budget 2014 will allow us to expand innovative approaches to apprenticeship training and support projects that will demonstrate improved accessibility to technical training for under-represented groups, including women.

Finally, the youth employment strategy, YES, is designed to help young Canadians gain the skills and experience needed to get into the workforce. In budget 2014, it was announced that the government will improve the YES to provide young Canadians with real-life work experience in high-demand fields, including the skilled trades.

We will be pleased to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you very much.

I will now ask the Department of Citizenship and Immigration officials to proceed with their 10-minute presentation.

[Matthew Graham, Acting Director, Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My name is Matthew Graham. I am the acting director of permanent economic immigration policy within the immigration branch at Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

It is my privilege to be joined by Maia Welbourne, who is director general of strategic policy and planning at CIC and responsible for gender-based analysis writ large, as well as Louis Dumas, director of the case processing centre here in Ottawa. We are very pleased to appear before your committee in the context of your study on women in skilled trades and science, technology, engineering, and mathematics occupations.

At CIC, we recognize and value the contribution of female immigrants in our economy and our society. In fact, CIC is the only federal department with a legislative requirement to conduct gender-based analysis and report back to Parliament on the impact of its legislation, in this case, the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

Consequently, the department proactively incorporates gender and diversity analysis into policy and program development, and develops monitoring mechanisms, including mitigation strategies for potential negative impacts on particular groups such as women.

CIC's 2013 annual report to Parliament found that in terms of overall economic immigration, women are making gains as principal applicants. Across many of Canada's economic programs, the number of female principal applicants is consistent or slowly increasing, suggesting that these programs are successfully recognizing the human capital of female immigrants.

The federal skilled workers program, which was modernized in 2013, selects applicants with human capital factors associated with long-term success and adaptability, including language, education, work experience, and previous work or study in Canada. The program has experienced a narrowing of the gender gap in terms of the relative number of women and men successfully applying through the program. The program has been successfully recognizing the skills and experiences of women as reflected through admissions to Canada. In 2004, women comprised only 26% of principal applicants, but this number has increased to 36% in 2014.

The provincial nominee program is an economic immigration program through which provinces and territories exercise their responsibility for immigration by nominating foreign nationals who they believe will meet their specific labour market needs. The number of admissions through the PNP has increased significantly over the past decade, and in that time, the percentage of women principal applicants admitted to Canada under the PNP has steadily increased from 21% in 2004 to 34% in 2014.

As you are aware, the government introduced the federal skilled trades program on January 2, 2013. This program was part of the overall transformation of Canada's economic system into a fast and flexible system focused on jobs, growth, and prosperity.

The federal skilled trades program was launched to facilitate the immigration of skilled tradespeople in response to the growing demand in certain industry sectors. Unlike the federal skilled worker program, it emphasizes practical training and work experience, rather than formal academic education, in recognition that this is the key to the employability of skilled tradespeople.

Skilled tradespeople can still apply through the federal skilled worker program but are now offered a new avenue to immigration that is more aligned with their career pathways.

The program is open to skilled tradespersons with work experience in the following national occupation classification skill level B occupational areas: industrial, electrical and construction trades; maintenance and equipment operation trades; supervisors and technical occupations in natural resources, agriculture, and related production; processing, manufacturing, and utilities supervisors and central control operators; chefs and cooks; and bakers and butchers.

The federal skilled trade program's pass/fail selection model is based on four selection criteria that are linked to a skilled tradesperson's ability to work in Canada. The four selection criteria include arranged employment or a certificate of qualification to practise their trade in the relevant province or territory, language skills, work experience, and education qualifications necessary to satisfy employment requirements.

The federal skilled trades program was designed to be gender-neutral. During its development, gender considerations were assessed around the impact of the program design. It was acknowledged that the two-year work experience requirement may be difficult to obtain for some women in their child-bearing years, as they may take short absences from the labour force to care for children.

To respond to women's more varied labour market patterns, this requirement was designed to be flexible, allowing applicants up to five years to obtain the two years of work experience required for the program. This approach allowed for a balance between being inclusive and recognizing the crucial importance of work experience in becoming economically established.

Since the inception of the federal skilled trades program, there has been a modest volume of applicants, both male and female. This is expected with every new program. As applicants learn the requirements of the program, intake generally increases over time. In 2014, 62 principal applicants were admitted through the program. While there were less than five women among those approved through the federal skilled trades program, 704 women in skilled trades occupations were admitted through Canada's other permanent resident economic immigration programs: the federal skilled worker program, the Canadian experience class, and the provincial nominee program.

Between 2010 and 2014, the number of women in skilled trades occupations admitted annually as permanent residents increased by 151%.

For those female immigrants with work experience in a science, engineering or mathematics occupation, they would be more likely to apply through the federal skilled worker program, the Canadian experience class or the provincial nominee program, as the programs are more tailored to knowledge-based workers.

In 2014, 2,016 female applicants working in an occupation in the natural and applied sciences were admitted to Canada. Further, the proportion of women relative to total admissions in these occupations increased from 16% in 2010 to 18% in 2014. Of those working in these occupations, the majority immigrated through the federal skilled worker program.

When the federal skilled worker program was modernized in 2013, one of the eligibility requirements—one year of work experience within the last ten years—remained unchanged, as it was designed to be inclusive for women, who have more varied labour market patterns than men.

In addition, the relative weight of work experience on the points grid was reduced. This was done in part to help lessen the impact that caregiving responsibilities may have on the ability of women to earn points for work experience.

Madam Chair, I can assure you that CIC always strives to ensure our suite of economic immigration programs is accessible to immigrants regardless of gender.

We look forward to receiving the findings of this committee's study. We are pleased to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you very much, Mr. Graham.

I will now ask Ms. Savoie, from Status of Women Canada, to give her 10-minute presentation.

Ms. Bateman, did you want to say something?

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair.

We received the first two witnesses' presentations in both official languages. But do we have the presentations of the next two witnesses?

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

They aren't available right now, but once they are, we'll have them sent to you by email.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

That's efficient. Thank you. Still, it is too bad.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you, Ms. Bateman.

Ms. Savoie, you have 10 minutes.

[Linda Savoie, Senior Director General, Women's Program and Regional Operations Directorate, Status of Women Canada]

Madam Chair, I am pleased to be here today on behalf of Status of Women Canada. We welcome your committee's timely study of women in skilled trades and the STEM occupations. It truly underscores the vital contribution that women make to the economic life of Canada.

In terms of the important role that women have in Canada's workplace, the good news is that in recent decades we've made considerable progress in workplace diversity. As my colleague from ESDC mentioned earlier, women now represent close to 50% of the Canadian workforce.

However, the same progress cannot be found for women's representation in skilled trades and STEM occupations. In 2011, men accounted for approximately 95% of all trade workers in Canada, and this proportion has not changed materially over the past two decades. As to the STEM occupations, women represent only some 22% of the workforce.

As we look to the future, Canada is facing a significant shortfall of tradespeople, since more than 25% of its workers are expected to retire over the next decade. Bringing women into the skilled trades can alleviate this labour force shortage that's anticipated in many sectors. As has been demonstrated by a number of studies, it can also help Canadian employers become more productive and globally competitive. Moreover, and to some degree more importantly, greater access for women to these well-paid positions will help women prosper, which in turn will benefit Canada's economy.

To increase the representation of women in some of these sectors, a number of challenges need to be addressed. The barriers to participation for women in the skilled trades along with technical and science-based occupations are complex, and they exist at various points on the path to education, training, employment, and advancement.

These barriers are found in curriculum development in elementary and secondary school, in college and university recruitment approaches, in hiring practices, and in workplace culture, to name just a few. For instance, in general, young women are still not being encouraged to consider the skilled trades or the STEM occupations as promising careers. Enlisting the support of parents and teachers can play an important role in helping young women see the full scope of these career opportunities.

In terms of the workplace, women working in these occupations report challenges such as inflexible schedules, few role models, an unwelcoming atmosphere, unsafe working conditions, or few advancement opportunities. It is also the case that some industries largely dependent on skilled trades workers and STEM professionals are not completely ready to consider hiring women or ready to be adjusting the workplace culture or its physical environment to welcome them.

To address these barriers, Status of Women Canada has undertaken a number of actions. For instance, our women's program funds a number of projects intended to support women in skilled trades and technical professions.

Since 2007, over $15 million has been invested in such projects. These are taking place in a variety of sectors ranging from mining, trucking and construction/building to communications and technology, science, engineering and energy—including oil and gas. And all these projects involve some form of collaboration between stakeholders such as industry/trade associations, industry human resource councils and other organizations.

In addition to projects, Status of Women Canada sponsored a knowledge exchange event, last year, to explore best practices to support women in the skilled trades and STEM.

The president of the Mining Association of Canada spoke about the need to get more women into mining. That position was echoed in a Globe and Mail article earlier this month, in which Goldcorp's vice-president of people referred to women as mining's untapped resource. She spoke to the need to address perceptions. Mining is no longer about going underground with a pick and axe. This is a highly technology-driven sector that can employ a range of professionals, from heavy equipment operators to engineers and technologists. Women can do all this and more, but they need to see how these sectors have changed in order to imagine themselves in these jobs.

Status of Women Canada also works with the provinces and territories. We are collaborating with the Canadian Apprenticeship Forum to develop a business case for women in the skilled trades and technical professions.

As a final example, in February 2014, Minister Leitch launched the Group of Leaders on Women in the Economy to look at ways to support women in the skilled trades and technical professions. In the coming weeks, the group will host a series of regional round tables to identify employer issues.

The initiatives that I've mentioned today reflect our recognition of the benefits of working with a wide variety of partners to support the advancement of women in skilled trades and technical professions as well as STEM-based careers.

I hope the information I've provided will be useful for your committee study and that it will spark your interest in meeting with some of the many very committed organizations that we have the privilege of working with on this issue.

I would be pleased to answer your questions. Merci.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you very much, Ms. Savoie.

We will now go to Janet Walden, from the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada. You have 10 minutes for your presentation.

[Janet Walden, Chief Operating Officer, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada]

Madam Chair, honourable members of the committee, thank you very much for this opportunity to speak with you today.

I'm joined by my colleague, Serge Villemure,

who is in charge of NSERC's scholarships and fellowships program.

I think my colleagues here have set the context very well. NSERC as an organization is responsible for the support of research and training in the sciences and engineering in this country, and so I will focus on that.

I'd like to start by talking about an alumna of the NSERC chairs for women in science and engineering program, Dr. Claire Deschênes. Dr. Deschênes is a professor of mechanical engineering at the Université Laval in Quebec City. She specializes in optimizing the performance of turbines used for hydro-power generation.

Dr. Deschênes is a highly seasoned and accomplished researcher who works effectively with industry. She is a senior faculty member, and from 1997 to 2006, Claire Deschênes was an NSERC Chair for Women in Science and Engineering.

We all recognize that more women like Ms. Deschênes are needed in leadership positions. They are needed to serve as role models and mentors for the next generation. They are needed to encourage young women to consider careers in science and engineering.

NSERC launched the Chairs for Women in Science and Engineering program in 1996 to help achieve those objectives. In order to increase the participation of women in these fields, NSERC designates five chairs across the country. Industry partners are leveraged for funding. Not only do these industry partnerships provide access to funding, but, more importantly, they also make companies aware of the importance of gender diversity.

As an agency, NSERC seeks to invest in the best research and to create world firsts in knowledge. We seek to collaborate with industry so they can be the first to use and take this knowledge to market.

To be successful in these goals, we know we need to increase gender diversity and equity in science and engineering. I can assure you that we are not only concerned about this issue, but we've also been taking action together with our sister granting agencies and others to tackle this challenge.

As the 2012 report from the Council of Canadian Academies on gender-based issues in research points out, while we've made progress, much work remains. This is particularly evident in the areas of physical sciences, computer sciences, engineering, and mathematics.

Looking at this question, it's important to consider gender diversity issues in science and engineering from both the discipline perspective and in terms of the career progression of the individual.

While the trends may be similar in the loss of women from the research system as a whole, the increasing number of women participating in the life sciences tends to overshadow the depth of the problem we face in the more mathematics-intensive areas. For example, the CCA found that women accounted for just 24% of those pursuing bachelor's degrees in the mathematics-intensive sciences and engineering compared to 69% in the life sciences.

After the bachelor's level, the good news is that the percentage of women in the mathematics-intensive fields tends to remain fairly constant through Ph.D. and up to the level of the assistant professor. However, from the rank of assistant professor to full professor, there is a significant loss of women in these roles and therefore not only a loss of expertise, but also a loss of mentors for young women entering these fields.

The data of both the Council of Canadian Academies and NSERC show that making real progress is challenging if there aren't enough women from the outset. We need women to continue on in these fields, but we really need to increase the number of female graduates, particularly in mathematics-oriented fields. That means catching the imagination of young women before they undertake post-secondary studies.

A second conclusion that I think we've all reached is that there's no single simple solution. To make progress requires a dynamic, multi-dimensional approach involving changes to our social and institutional systems.

As I noted earlier, NSERC's role is to ensure that Canada is generating the creative ideas and talent that our country needs to succeed. As a result, over the years NSERC has progressively introduced a number of programs and policies to try to address the under-representation of women throughout various stages of the academic career path.

From 1991 to 2008, NSERC ran the women's faculty awards program, which promoted the increase of women in faculty positions in Canadian universities at a time when universities were hiring at a slower pace. ln 1996, as I mentioned, we introduced the chairs for women in science and engineering. ln 2011, we adopted a policy statement on gender equality, stating that all Canadians should have equal opportunity to participate in science and engineering. This commits us to monitoring for gender bias in our peer review processes.

To increase the flow of women into faculty positions, we introduced measures to ease the transition through the post-doctoral stage. For example, we introduced allowances for parental benefits to make it easier for students and post-doctoral fellows to maintain their research programs while starting families. To reduce the loss of women during the assistant to full professor progression, our grantees can request an extension of the term of their grant for up to two years for maternity or parental leave.

These measures are beneficial because they help reduce the number of women who give up this career path. They do not, however, help increase the number of women who pursue a post-secondary education in science or engineering. In that respect, NSERC's Chairs for Women in Science and Engineering play a critical role. These accomplished researchers spend up to 50% of their time reaching out to young women whom they guide and mentor. Nevertheless, the number of young women that the chairs can have an impact on is limited. NSERC's PromoScience program targets a much larger and more diverse pool of young people.

By supporting science promotion groups across the country that have the feet on the ground to reach kindergarten to grade 12 students directly, we extend our outreach and our impact.

I would like to add that we were extremely pleased that the Government of Canada recognized the importance of PromoScience in the recently updated science, technology and innovation strategy.

As I conclude my opening remarks, I would like to mention a couple of broader actions that NSERC is involved in, in terms of increasing gender diversity.

ln 2013, we co-organized the third gender summit for North America. The event brought together more than 600 participants from over 30 countries, and was dedicated to addressing the barriers faced by women in science and engineering and sharing best practices. The result is a a multi-stakeholder gender road map that outlines actions that must be taken collectively to achieve greater diversity in the STEM fields.

NSERC also recently joined the departmental action plan on gender-based analysis and is working with Status of Women Canada to implement this framework within our organization.

I am also proud to say that women make up 67% of NSERC's workforce and are active at every level within the organization. In fact, our executive team is 50% female. So, as you can see, one of NSERC's core priorities is to encourage women to pursue careers in science and engineering, and that includes within the organization, itself.

We are committed to increasing women's participation in STEM fields, facilitating the accommodation of career and family, and nurturing mentorship.

At the end of the day, true gender diversity and equity helps increase overall excellence in science and engineering, giving Canada a competitive advantage.

ln closing, I would like to formally invite all members of this committee to an event that we'll be holding on June 8 on Parliament Hill that will showcase some of Canada's leading women in science and engineering. At the event you will have the opportunity to meet incredibly talented researchers, including Dr. Claire Deschênes, who I described at the beginning of my remarks.

I hope that you will be able to attend.

Thank you, and we look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you very much, Ms. Walden.

We will now begin the question-and-answer period. Ms. Truppe will lead us off for seven minutes.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, I would like to thank everyone for being here and giving such great presentations on everything that we're trying to do for women and girls.

I want to mention to Janet that for NSERC, PromoScience is a great program. The minister just made an announcement in London from the London Children's Museum. It was so cute. We got to see all the different interactive ways they're trying to engage young kids. There were a lot of girls there, which was really good, to be interested in these types of new activity. I thought it was really great.

Also, I hosted round tables in the last couple of years on how to get more girls into skilled trades. It was really interesting hearing the feedback that we received too. Some of the feedback that we received was mentioned today as well.

First my questions will be for Jonathan.

You mentioned the under-representation in the STEM fields. At the post-secondary level, I think you said that women continue to be under-represented in STEM and there's female under-representation particularly in the engineering and related technologies, math, computer, and information sciences. We know that a lot of young women aren't choosing to pursue the STEM fields of study, despite outperforming their male counterparts. Why is that in your opinion? Why is it that we can't get these young girls, or older girls even, interested in STEM? They do really well as doctors and lawyers so they're not under-represented there, but they are under-represented in these fields. In your opinion, why is that?

[Jonathan Will]

Thank you very much for the question.

Researchers are conflicted about why women are under-represented in STEM occupations, but a number of potential issues have been identified.

Female students showed lower self-confidence in their mathematics abilities across OECD countries compared to male students. In Canada according to StatsCan research even young women with a high level of mathematical ability are far less likely to enter STEM fields than men with lower mathematical abilities. This suggests that additional factors such as cultural expectations, work-life balance concerns, workplace characteristics, or differences in interest may be at play.

For women who do complete STEM degrees most choose science or biology programs rather than mathematics, computer science, or engineering, which pay higher wages on average. While women continue to be under-represented among STEM graduates, their numbers are growing. In 2011, 34% of all STEM degree holders age 25 to 34 were women compared to only 23% of STEM graduates age 55 to 64.

Concerning the skilled trades, employment in the skilled trades is perceived by some as low paid, low skilled, and low prestige. ESDC research identified a common perception that women lack the physical strength to pursue trades work.

Female secondary students reported higher parental expectations of educational success than males where educational success was commonly defined as achieving a post-secondary degree. In a survey of post-secondary students in Canada, 28% of male students responded that they've considered pursuing a career in the trades compared to only 8% of women.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

You're right. What I found at some of the round tables was that the parents had a higher expectation. When you were talking about the expectations that they complete university, forgetting even the fact that—I think you were referring to maybe no post-secondary—even if they go to college to take the skilled trade, that still in their minds wasn't acceptable. It was like, “Oh my God, my kid graduated from college as opposed to university”, yet they're probably making a lot more money than some of the ones who have finished university, because they can't get jobs in their fields, where these are specifically designed.

You had mentioned that ESDC projections show that the occupations expected to be in shortage over the next decade are much more likely to have low rates of female participation than non-shortage. What type of occupations were you referring to? Could you give us a couple of examples?

[Jonathan Will]

In terms of male-occupied sectors where there is projected to be a shortage, they would be information systems and data processing managers, civil engineers, a significant number of types of engineers, firefighters, welders, oil and gas well drillers, industrial and power system electricians, and software engineers.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

That's interesting. Thank you.

You mentioned that the job bank and working in Canada websites have been consolidated, which I thought was great. Do you have the new consolidated website for that, by chance, just so we have it for the record? If not, you can send that in.

[Jonathan Will]

It's jobs.gc.ca.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Jobs.gc.ca. Okay.

Ms. Scott mentioned, “For the past few decades, women participating in apprenticeship systems have remained largely within the hairstyling and food services trades,” which we found as well. Do you have any thoughts on how we can change this?

This is not our jurisdiction, but what we found at the round tables is that guidance counsellors are certainly not mentioning skilled trades at all, or any other trade, certainly not STEM too much. Then the students don't know what to take and they don't know what to do, and maybe they don't really excel in something that they can continue for the next four years. I found even talking to the students, that they weren't usually mentioned, nor did the parents a lot of times. I don't know if that's also in the school system, as well as the parents not encouraging the children to pursue that. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[Catherine Scott]

Sure. I think when we look at why youth in general are not attracted to the skilled trades, certainly that's key. It's the lack of exposure in the school system, and guidance counsellors may be directing both young men and women toward more traditional occupations.

We did a national apprenticeship survey in 2007 and looked at some of the reasons. Certainly, when you look at young women, one of the keys for young women who were attracted to the trades was that they had a role model or a family member who was already in the trades. That's key, I think, as well as exposure within the school system.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Freeman, you may go ahead for seven minutes.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think it's important that we're talking about STEM, encouraging women in STEM, and talking about education and training, and mentorship in those roles. I do think that's important, but I'm going to concentrate a little bit wider.

My questions are really directed to you, Madam Savoie, and Status of Women Canada.

You mentioned that it's obviously complex, encouraging young girls and women to pursue these career paths. I'm wondering whether in your department, or across departments, there's a look at more generally systemic barriers like poverty, like the fact that women still do the majority of unpaid work—raising children and things like that—which is affecting not only whether girls are going into these fields, but also specifically whether they're moving up in them, whether they're making as much money in these fields.

[Linda Savoie]

Thank you for the question.

Clearly, maybe not so much for girls making these choices but for women who are looking at career options—women who are looking either at entering a non-traditional occupation or at staying in a non-traditional occupation—there are some challenges around the inflexibility of work schedules, for instance. As part of most of our projects, and in our conversations with the groups we work with, it's commonly reported that there are some challenges for women, not necessarily in travelling to remote areas but in getting sufficient advance notice to be able to go to that remote area, right? The flexibility needs to be built into the workplace.

The responsibilities for child care, and even elder care, are still primarily with women, as we all have heard and as many studies demonstrate. This is also a factor that affects women's choices and the ability to meet inflexible workplace requirements. Access to child care if you're a shift worker is repeatedly also brought forward by the groups we work with that are trying to enhance the opportunities for women in these fields.

It's quite correct that a number of initiatives are looking at these. Most of our projects always require groups to work collaboratively to bring the range of participants in the issue to the table. They will bring together employers, unions, and community groups. We have some innovative piloting of child care shift-work options that is being tested out west. A number of initiatives are under way, and we're trying to identify the best practices and ultimately share those.