Status of Women Committee on May 5th, 2015

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

You were talking about the career exploration program, and as I understand it, it's a 14-week project that is at the centre of excellence and then they go to college. Do they go for one year or two years?

[Doreen Parsons]

Generally two years. The welding and metal fabrication programs are two year pre-apprenticeship programs.

Irving Shipbuilding is contributing 50% of the tuition, and the corporate sponsor has also stepped up to match that. That isn't usual for all of the other programs; that's a special situation.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

I thought that it was great that the two corporations stepped up to pay the balance, the tools, and everything they needed. That was really good of them.

[Anna Marenick]

If I can add, too, one of the things that we think is great about this class of women is that all of these 20 women right now who are participating in this program did so from a desire to participate in trades, not because they knew this funding was an option. We told them about that later.

What Women Unlimited does really well is help women understand why these careers are good careers. The fact that these women came forward and said they wanted to be welders and tradespeople I think really shows that there are women out there who want to do that, and we just need to help with that.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

I know that when I hosted round tables in some areas of Canada, that was a big thing. Someone mentioned—and it might have been here—that it's an educational thing, number one. They're not getting told about this so much through the guidance counsellors or parents. That was huge, and they're so well paying. At the tables, it was just amazing the money that I heard they were making. The more we get in there, the better.

I think also, Doreen, you said that, since 2005, 570 women, 94%, completed the course. How many—if there is even stat on that—of those who completed the course were employed or got jobs after that?

[Doreen Parsons]

There's about 70% who are continuing with their education or employed, because it varies depending on whether they're in school or not.

In Nova Scotia it tends to be that they go to the Nova Scotia Community College for training prior to entering fields.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

For the other balance of the percentage, they just ended up doing something else or maybe they weren't interested in it.

[Doreen Parsons]

That's correct. They go into another program or career.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Now I'll turn it over to the Canadian Association of Women in Construction, Tammy.

Is there a Women in Construction in London, Ontario? I think there is. Do you know if there is?

[Tammy Evans]

It's not a chapter of CAWIC, but there are some committees within local construction associations.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Okay.

I remember reading a big write-up on them and I wanted to meet them. I haven't had an opportunity yet.

I think you also mentioned that you receive Status of Women funding. How much did you get, and what's your duration? Are you partway through as well?

[Tammy Evans]

It's a 36-month project. We started January 2014 and we received $249,900.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

You still have a bit of a ways to go.

[Tammy Evans]

We're still in the needs assessment phase.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Okay, great.

You mentioned that 11% of women were in construction, and I just want to know how you get the message out that these are really good, well-paying jobs.

[Tammy Evans]

We have to get into the schools.

We've been trying to collaborate with other organizations and the unions getting into the schools and raising the profile. What we'd like to recommend—and one of our recommendations in our report will be—a media campaign. There are some smaller campaigns out there, but we need the industry to get involved, so it was already one of our recommendations to the industry in past studies, and we're going to recommend the same thing to the governments.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Freeman, the floor is yours for seven minutes.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you.

Thanks to all our witnesses. Again, thank you for rescheduling to this week. We're very glad to have you all with us.

My first question is for Professor Lahey.

Could you maybe explain to the committee or talk to us about the fact that there is a wage gap for women in STEM fields and that there are fewer women being employed in these fields? How much is that costing the economy? How much is that affecting not only women, but how is this wage gap affecting the overall Canadian economy?

[Prof. Kathleen Lahey]

The first big problem with having a wage gap like that is that it means women are not working full time, full year, permanently, but are in much more precarious positions. We're not taking full advantage, as an economy, as a society, of all of the talent that has been so laboriously identified, developed, and then made available through the wage force.

The second big loss is that as those wages are not paid and those incomes are not earned, governments are not earning revenues on their human capital investments, which they should be expecting to reap as a consequence of that.

Thirdly, they are then part of the shrinking cohort of women who are available to be the role models, which we're now hearing from these very small, localized programs are actually what are needed.

The whole problem could be addressed much more efficiently by simply stepping up and enforcing the Canadian human rights code, enforcing the federal contractors program. It could be addressed by getting the kinds of regulatory reporting, monitoring, and investigative mechanisms in place that would make it possible to bring the profound shift that has taken place in the educational and employment sectors into visibility, so that the public at large is aware that this is a new problem, a growing problem.

It's like trying to put a forest fire out with a teacup. It is just not capable of turning things around.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

How do you see us addressing that? I mean, how do our budgets and tax policies influence women's labour force participation?

[Prof. Kathleen Lahey]

On every level.

First of all, I would point out that the Canadian Academies has already done a very comprehensive study that encompasses the kinds of problems that exist in the STEM educational areas in Canada. It's a very recent report. It contains a lot of very concrete proposals and scientific findings of the same nature as those produced in the U.S., the EU, and some of the other countries.

It has been ignored, but it should not only be taken into very serious consideration, it should also be redone and updated. The government has a very serious role to play in carrying out a profoundly detailed investigation. I would hasten to add that the Canadian Human Rights Commission settlement that was reached in relation to the under-appointment of women to some of the prestigious chairs in universities should be reactivated. That is something that is completely withering right on the vine.

Beyond that, the whole tax transfer system, because it has been subjected to so much austerity, has placed a great deal of pressure on universities, with the result that tuitions have been rising rapidly. Young women going into university are facing larger amounts of debt than young men going in. Even at the age of 16, there is now a wage gap in Canada that grows rapidly by the time women reach the ages of 32 to 34, and it just doesn't go away.

Women who do undertake to gain these kinds of expensive educations and put their whole employability on the line by daring to enter into a very discriminatory area of education and employment after graduation also come out with higher levels of debt, lower incomes compared to their male cohorts, higher debt repayment payments every month, and longer repayment periods. In the long run, they end up with much less net wealth, much less economic security, and much less ability to attain financial stability, compared to the very same men they went through their educations with.

It's a very complex, multi-layered problem, and as it's permitted to persist in Canada, it's simply going to grow and become more difficult to solve.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

How would our budgeting process and our policies benefit from enforced gender responsive budgeting and GBA across programming?

[Prof. Kathleen Lahey]

Many needs assessments have already been carried out, and it would not be difficult to estimate what it would cost to set up a truly autonomous status of women committee in the federal government with its own investigative powers similar to those of the Auditor General of Canada and the Parliamentary Budget Officer. From that position, then, there would be an independent investigative mechanism within the government to follow and track the adequacy of the budgeting that has been allocated to this particular area of employment and education.

If that were put into place, it would mean, of course, moving to a different funding model for Status of Women Canada, but the benefit of that would be that it would have its own ability to investigate, hire experts, analyze the problems, make policy recommendations, monitor on a very close level, and also have monitoring and oversight capacity with respect to other departments, such as the Department of Finance, such as human resources, and so on, and be able to really sort of advocate for this particular goal of achieving economic autonomy and equality for women, not only in the STEM areas but in related areas where there are similar kinds of problems.

Just pursuant to that point—

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Ms. Lahey, thank you very much, but our time is up, so hold that thought maybe for another question.

Mrs. O'Neill Gordon, you have seven minutes.