Status of Women Committee on May 24th, 2018

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Just a reminder for anybody who's tuned in back home, with the estimates before us we have an opportunity, as parliamentarians, to scrutinize the spending of the government, and we have the experts here to answer questions. We have to make sure that spending is being done in a sensible way.

There are a few items I wanted to home in on that are included in the estimates. To build on one of the questions my colleague Ms. Jordan asked, about engaging men and boys, I saw a line item in the estimates for $0.9 million. One of the things we heard loud and clear during our committee study on eliminating gender-based violence against young women and girls was that to bring men and boys into the conversation you have to go to where men and boys are talking. The ones who show up the first week on campus at the sexual assault and consent seminar are not likely the ones you need to connect with. You need to break up the so-called locker room talk. How can you assure us that the funds you are allocating to encourage men and boys to promote gender equity in Canada is being spent in a way that's going to reach the men and boys who need it most?

[Nancy Gardiner, Senior Director General, Women’s Program and Regional Operations, Office of the Co-ordinator, Status of Women]

You raise an excellent point around going to the source to get information on how to fix the problem. As the minister mentioned, an amount in the budget was identified for engaging men and boys. That is exactly what is going to happen over the summer. Terry Duguid will be leading the engagement, and going to the sources to see what is required for our men and boys strategy, figuring out from the source the types of programming, resources, and issues being faced by men and boys that would help with this issue. We're looking forward to that opportunity because it will give us the on-the-ground information that's required to develop the types of strategies that would meet the needs of men and boys in addressing the violent situations we are talking about.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

That's excellent. Is it safe to say this is perhaps the first tranche of funds that's going to identify strategies to solve the problem that could be followed by further opportunities in future budgetary measures?

[Nancy Gardiner]

I think it's safe to say this is the opportunity to figure out the exact need and how we can address it, depending on that information.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you very much.

I wanted to move to another budget line item that I've seen here. About $10 million is allocated in the estimates to support women's community organizations. We've heard loud and clear through multiple studies to find the people who are doing the good work, support them in doing it, so I'm encouraged to see that advice seems to have been taken.

I wanted to raise with you two challenges in particular. The first involves the ability to use some of these funds toward the core operating expenses of a community-based organization. The second deals with the length of time these funds go for. We see time and time again really great projects have a one- or a two-year term, and when they prove themselves to be effective they are told they have to come up with a completely new plan. Is this money going to be spent in a way that's going to allow women's organizations to do good work for the long term, and are they going to be able to help keep the lights on, so to speak, with the funding that's been made available?

[Nancy Gardiner]

I've worked a long time in terms of not-for-profit organizations, not with the Status of Women but with other departments, and I've seen that issue being raised across many sectors, I'd say.

The funding that has been announced is looking at the sustainability of women's organizations. I think that's an issue that's been raised to the department over the long period of time that the agency has been in existence. For these organizations, as you've said, it's important for them to have that solid base of support so they can do the work they do on the ground. That sustainability is exactly what it's focusing on. They will have access to funds that will support their capacity.

As the minister stated earlier, it's a longer-term length of time for these projects to be in place, and not the one-year project-based funding. We're looking at a period of five years. That would allow organizations to have that stability they need to do the work they do every day, as well as potentially applying for other types of program funding that look at project-based funding.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I expect I only have time for perhaps one more question, or maybe two if they're very brief.

One of the other line items I see is half a million dollars set aside for “Improving Support for Sexual Assault Crisis Centres on Campuses”.

We had a chapter of our gender-based violence study dedicated to the campus culture, the rape culture that permeates society. Women are seeking to gain an education, yet face this barrier of a threat of sexual violence. It absolutely astounded me when I heard about the risks faced by young women who are entering colleges and universities.

Frankly, half a million dollars doesn't seem like enough money to solve this problem. Can you give me some confidence that this is money that's perhaps, like the men and boys initiative, going to help identify the problems and solutions, so that with follow-up funding opportunities we can actually make the difference we need to make?

[Nancy Gardiner]

I have to say that having just started working at Status of Women, I am a little fearful with a daughter going to university in September. You know a lot more information on this point.

That amount of money is for this fiscal year. The total amount for campus-based violence is $5.5 million over a period of time. It's the very beginning part of the actual initiative. Then, as the minister talked about, we'll be able to work with our provinces and territories and with our stakeholders that know this issue very well to determine what a strategy, a framework, could look like for university and college campuses across the country.

I think working with our partners is critical in this, because those players are main contributors to working with the universities on the ground. Actually determining what a framework could look at is critical for us to have the right supports in place for those folks on campus.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

That's excellent.

I have about 30 seconds left. I'll use it to say thank you. The work you do is incredibly valuable. I appreciate what it's going to look like with the increased resources over the next decade.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

Nancy, thank you for sharing your personal story as well. It's good to know that we're all in it together as parents.

I'm going to carry on now with Stephanie Kusie for her seven minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Of course, as a woman, I'm very excited to see that this year's budget and therefore the estimates, of course, were in regard to women, since I am a woman and since I support women.

However, I am very concerned—I've stated this previously in committee—about the outcomes that these types of budgets have historically had. In Australia, this type of budget was abandoned in 2014. In Austria, we saw a third party auditor review this type of budget, with no data coming out that women were in fact much better off. Also, in a study of several OECD countries, only half were shown to have some type of measurable improvement in the lives of women in their nations with these types of budgets that were implemented.

I asked the minister this question the last time she was here and it wasn't addressed at all. As someone who is very proud to have managed million-dollar budgets for the government in my previous role as a management consular officer for missions abroad, and as someone who prides herself on having a Master of Business Administration—like many of my colleagues in the House, I'm sure, who also have many designations—I'm wondering if you can please identify specifically the metrics by which this budget and these specific portions relevant to the Status of Women will be measured.

I think the Canadian public is very excited to see this budget, but they will need the evidence, the proof. The government talks all the time about being a science-based government, a data-based government, so what are the metrics that we can look for and the tools that will be used to see the positive outcomes, the benefits, and the results for this budget, please?

[Nancy Gardiner]

I will just start by saying that the budget outlined many initiatives, including some specifically for Status of Women. As for the programming piece, I think we've been pretty clear in terms of the outcomes for that type of programming specifically.

The budget also raised the bar, I would say, on gender budgeting, and the focus on results is really clear. The gender results framework is going to guide the results of the measures that have been put into the budget. I'll just ask Lisa to speak to some of the specifics around that.

[Lisa Smylie]

As Nancy said, this budget released a gender results framework. The intent of that framework is to articulate what we're trying to achieve on gender equality, and how we're going to know we have gotten there—what the measures of success are.

There are six pillars to the framework, and under those six pillars there are key indicators that we're going to pay attention to and monitor over time to see how successful we've been in achieving those goals. Those indicators are published in the budget, and those are the success measures that we will monitor.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Could you expand on what they are, specifically? What are they relative to? We can certainly set our own objectives relative to what is.... I guess I'm saying that we can create artificial numbers to make ourselves feel good, but how will we really know that this has had a positive impact on women and, furthermore, on society?

Perhaps you could further outline those pillars for me, please.

[Lisa Smylie]

I'd be very happy to, absolutely.

For example, under the pillar of education and skills development, we've indicated in the framework that we want to see equal opportunities and diversified paths in education and skills development. We want to see more diversified educational paths and career choices. In terms of indicators that we'll pay attention to, we want to look at the proportion of post-secondary qualification holders who are women by field of study and qualification type, the proportion of post-secondary students who are women by field of study and credential type, and high school completion rate by gender and for under-represented groups, including indigenous peoples.

We also want to see reduced gender gaps in reading and numeracy skills amongst youth, including indigenous youth. We'll look at indicators—such as high school reading and mathematic test scores—by gender, including those for indigenous peoples.

We'd like to see equal lifelong learning opportunities for adults, so we'll pay attention to indicators such as—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Lisa, pardon me.

Are there numeric scores tied to those, or is it aspirational? Is it percentile? If scores improve 30%...or are we aiming for a minimum 65% standard? I mean, that's just a bare example.

I'm sorry, but what was the first phrase you read at the beginning of your explanation, which is very detailed, and I'm appreciative of it?

[Lisa Smylie]

The first thing that I said was that, in terms of the goal statement for education and skills development, we'd like to see equal opportunities in diversified—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Equal opportunities. Pardon me. Even that just seems so subjective and very vague for me in terms of what opportunities would be defined as. That's certainly more difficult to measure.

Going back to the second question, are there numerical scores, data, or quantifiable ways to measure these things you talk about as an example of one pillar, just to use it as an example across the budget?

[Lisa Smylie]

For most of the indicators in this framework, we do have data available from a number of sources. I will give you an example. Under the gender-based violence pillar, we have indicators related to self-reported incidents of violent crime. We have indicators related to sexual assault reported to police. We certainly have that data available from Statistics Canada.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

In terms of the reduction you're hoping for—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Excellent.

Lisa and Steph, we're a little over the seven minutes, so thank you very much.

We're now going to move to Ms. Quach for seven minutes.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank all of you for being here.

I'd like to ask about the strategy regarding campuses. Earlier the minister said that a strategy would be deployed. In fact, there will be a five-year study. So for the moment, there really isn't any plan to help girls and women on campuses who are victims of sexual assault.

However, Budget 2018 indicated that the government might decrease transfers to universities that do not put an action plan in place, but only as of 2019. Could that measure be put in place now, in 2018?

[Nancy Gardiner]

You are correct. It's not a strategy that's going to be implemented right away. As the minister stated, the idea is for us to work with our partners, the provinces and territories, and organizations that work with students on campuses, to determine the best framework to put in place to allow us to have a strategy that would respond to some of the challenges that have been faced on university campuses.

At this point, we are just beginning. That work will begin over the summer in order to enable us to develop what that strategy really looks like. It has to respond to the partners that we're working with as well, because a lot of those folks have direct relationships with the students on the ground, and the students themselves play a really critical role in developing what this framework is going to look like.

There has been a lot of work developed already by organizations. The idea of this whole strategy would be a national framework, but for it to be enabled at the campus level. I think that would meet the needs of the students as well as the organization they're working in.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

In fact, I was talking about the fact that the government may reduce transfers to universities that put nothing in place to help women who are victims of violence.

Could that measure be put into effect immediately?

[Nancy Gardiner]

At this point, the focus is on developing the strategy and the framework, and that's the focus of our work at Status of Women right now. It is working with partners to develop the strategy and the framework.