Evidence of meeting #107 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was run.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
Good afternoon and welcome to the 107th meeting of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women. This meeting is public. Today we're continuing our study on the barriers facing women in politics, and I'm pleased to welcome both Kayleigh Erickson and Shal Marriott. Shal, of course, is here by video conference from St. John's.
I will now turn to floor over to Ms. Erickson for her opening statement.
You have seven minutes.
Kayleigh Erickson As an Individual
Thank you.
I am often asked what I believe the future of politics could look like. In response I tend to think of a historic moment on March 8, 2017, when I took my seat in the House of Commons alongside 336 fellow Daughters of the Vote. I’ll never forget the sense of pride and hope I felt looking at a Parliament filled with women—68 of them indigenous delegates, one of them being the first trans woman to take her seat in the House. I left the chamber with renewed confidence in the capacity of our political institutions to be inclusive and representative, but also aware of the work and commitment it would take to make this a reality.
To understand the underrepresentation of women in Parliament, we need to examine political parties' internal policies mandating the recruitment of diverse female candidates, the context in which these policies are being adopted, and the responsibility parties have in considering the ridings their candidates are running in. In the absence of legislative measures and the lack of formal actions, such as quotas or targets, steps to address gender parity are taken on a voluntary basis by political parties.
The result of the last B.C. election is indicative of the impact that these voluntary measures can have. While one-third of female candidates running were elected, the NDP's self-imposed equity policy resulted in 46% of their elected MLAs being women, compared to the B.C. Liberals' 32%. Federally, the NDP doesn’t run nomination races until it’s demonstrated that efforts have been made to recruit diverse candidates, and has committed to an equity-seeking mandate. The success of this proactive, nomination-based mandate was demonstrated in the 2015 federal election, as 43% of the candidates running for the NDP were women compared to just 31% of Liberals, and less than 20% of Conservatives. This ongoing struggle to recruit female candidates is emblematic of broader structural issues, such as a lack of clarity and transparency in nomination processes. What exactly does it mean to demonstrate efforts to recruit diverse candidates?
To create effective and intentional strategies, political parties need to ask themselves, what needs to happen to get women to opt-in and what does it mean to be qualified for political office? Fox and Lawless have shown that men aged 18-25 are twice as likely to say that they’ve thought about running for office many times, and have been encouraged to do so by others. When women are frequently asked to put their name forward, their likelihood of thinking about running for office increases dramatically. When asked a hypothetical question about whether they’d run for a political position in the future, 51% of young women said no compared to 31% of young men.
In addition, there’s a 30% gap between men and women in thinking that they’re not qualified. While attempting to put together a diverse slate to run in a student election at the University of Victoria, I asked numerous women to run for executive positions, and the responses were, why me? I’m sure there’s someone better than me for this position, and I’ve never thought about running for political office. By contrast, a majority of the men I asked either immediately agreed to run, or declined for reasons unrelated to their ability to hold an executive position.
Even when women run, they are under-represented in winnable ridings. In the 2015 federal election, women running for the Liberals and Conservatives won less frequently than their male colleagues. As the president of the Young Liberals of Canada in B.C., I paid particular attention to the outcome of our last election in which more than half of men running for the provincial Liberal party won their seat, while only 39% of women won theirs. While the gap is smaller in the NDP it still exists. Therefore, putting women in another party’s stronghold is not just a federal or a centre-right issue. A long-term study found that women were less likely to run in their party’s stronghold, less likely to run in competitive ridings, and more likely to run in another party’s stronghold.
The political culture within our institutions creates additional barriers. Politically engaged women encounter gender bias in media representations of female politicians, hear gender-based heckling, and are aware of the whisper network around sexualized violence and harassment. Women, as a result, may be less inclined to run for office. One of the questions that media outlets repeatedly ask women in politics is, how do you balance your family and professional life? The male colleagues, on the other hand, are instead asked about their careers. This perpetuates gender-based assumptions of women’s responsibility as caregivers, while reinforcing the outdated belief that men are naturally acclimatized to the public sphere. The language we use can either reinforce or dismantle pre-conceived ideas, and its impact is clearly demonstrated in the usage of heckling in parliamentary sessions.
A United Nations survey of elected women revealed that women experience daily condescension, including being shushed, told to calm down, and to be nicer. Additionally, research has shown that men heckle more than women, that women are interrupted more than men, and that women are more likely to say they hear heckles based on gender. As a young woman who is actively engaged in politics, I have taken part in numerous political simulations. In these spaces, I have personally been told to be less emotional, had my capacity to be the leader of a party questioned on the basis of my gender, had my intelligence reduced to the colour of my hair, and have consoled countless female colleagues who heard heckles relating to their menstrual cycle and physical appearance. I have watched young women remove themselves from the room who had been facing the aggressive and hurtful nature of heckles, some choosing not to return.
As leaders in our society, we need to be calling out jokes and language that objectify women, as these serve to uphold a structure of sexualized and gender-based violence. Issues of sexualized violence and harassment are pervasive. I know young women staffers who have experienced objectification and violence in their roles, some of whom have been scared to come forward because of the risk to their reputation and their future in politics.
While the federal government and some provinces have created or committed to advancing harassment policies to protect them, legislation alone won't shift a culture of misogyny and abuse. Furthermore, corrective policies also contain problematic elements. For example, Newfoundland and Labrador's harassment policy fails to be survivor centred by stipulating that survivors have 12 months to submit a complaint and may not do so anonymously.
While we have a long way to go in creating safe and inclusive environments for women in politics, mentorship opportunities can provide a counterweight to gender dynamics in political spaces.
In my experience as a board member and participant in the Canadian Women Voters Congress campaign school, I have witnessed the impact of creating non-partisan spaces for women to network and to support each other. It is within these collaborative spaces that women mentor each other and encourage each other to run for office, where gender dynamics are discussed, strategies for challenging derogatory comments are advanced, and where worries about subjective political competence are quelled.
However, normally underfunded, under-staffed organizations create these opportunities. Therefore I believe we should be simultaneously overlapping female mentorship with existing youth programs and events like model parliaments to continue counteracting our current political culture and to encourage more women to opt into politics.
Thank you for allowing me to be here today, and I look forward to any of the questions you may have for me.
Conservative
Conservative
As an Individual
Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee. My name is Shal Marriott. It is my pleasure to stand before you today and speak on a subject that I believe is of the utmost importance in politics today, and that's the barriers that actively face women.
I wish to make it clear that the perspective I'm speaking from is not one that's grounded in empirical facts and figures, nor do I profess to understand the intricacies of every opinion that every member of my gender has. Rather, they are personal opinions grounded in my having spent time on the Hill, in various internship programs, and in political activism. It is the position I have as a daughter, a sister, a loving partner, and a young political science student. That being said, I hope that you will find what I have to say to be thought-provoking and that it will aid in a greater discussion on the barriers women face when considering to enter and upon entering politics.
Although there is much to be said on the subject, I wish to narrow my focus to what I perceive as the greatest issue actively facing women in politics today, and that is the rhetoric around the issue itself. I will elaborate on this point by looking at how there is a lack of honest conversation around what it means to be a woman in politics, how there is an emphasis placed on the masculine virtues—in essence, politics being a man's world—and how there are distinct limitations on women holding independent political opinions without those being directly associated with their gender. I will conclude my remarks by making brief recommendations as to what women who are presently in politics can do to confront the rhetoric around the issue, as well as what men can do, and how the role that government as an institution ought to play on the subject should be less than it's already doing.
Turning first to what to expect upon entering politics, it is all too tempting to overlook the small differences and expectations that men and women have, yet these are the most important to discuss since doing so would allow an honest look at what being a woman in politics means. The example I always like to use is the fact that a man will never have to worry about the colour of stilettos he's wearing to work, whereas for a woman this is almost always a daily concern. Although it seems silly, this is a fraction of the expectations that precede women in their roles working in politics.
It doesn't stop at shoes. If we want young women who are interested in politics to feel comfortable in the world they're about to be a part of, we have to be honest about what that entails, which means having difficult conversations around such topics that have been brought to light, especially recently, around sexual harassment and workplace dynamics. In allowing and encouraging this honest discourse, we can create an environment where women have a realistic understanding of what to expect of the political world.
Now let's consider, for a moment, whom we view as great women in politics, shall we? Too often we associate their virtues with masculine virtues. The first female prime minister of the United Kingdom, Margaret Thatcher, was thought to only be successful because of her ability to act like a man, both in the House of Commons and within her own party. I think this is a commentary on her ability to be assertive and to dominate the conversation, yet why is this considered masculine? When we think of encouraging young women, why shouldn't we be teaching them to be assertive, to take charge, and to express their own mind? I think we give men too much credit and women too little credit when we simply say that these are masculine virtues.
Furthermore, why do we not actively discuss the roles that our considered feminine virtues can play? Empathy, for example, can play an important role in politics. In fact, I would go so far as to say you become a better member of Parliament when you can empathize with the constituents you're representing. Yet instead of highlighting this, we call it womanly and we shun it and say it has no place in politics. This needs to change. Instead of telling women to be more like men, we ought to be telling them to utilize their perspectives and capabilities to the best of their abilities and make their own way in politics—essentially, to be independent and free-thinking.
This leads me to my final point, which I consider the most important, the idea of women speaking their minds. In political rhetoric today, there is a tendency to classify opinions that women hold as either supporting or acting against their own gender and essentially what it means to be a women. Simply, there are correct and incorrect political opinions to have, and if you have an incorrect political opinion, then you're not really representing women. Each time a woman speaks, she is thought to be speaking on behalf of her gender. An example of this, I think, can be seen in the abortion discussion, where women who are pro-life are slandered as anti-woman and ostracized because of their opinion.
This tyranny of the opinion of women is not brought about by men who have the luxury of speaking independently for their gender; rather it is the habit of women themselves who place obligations on the entirety of their gender and who are all too willing to dismiss views that run contrary to popular opinion as incorrect and in opposition to the very fundamental notion of equality for women.
This has even developed into having correct or incorrect opinions on the barriers facing women in politics, the subject of our discussion today. If we want to genuinely encourage women to become more involved in politics, which is the first step to having women in politics, we have to listen to what they have to say. We cannot tell them there are right or wrong answers to political questions, and we have to support them, regardless of whether we agree with their opinions or not, viewing them as individuals and not merely as women.
I hope I have expressed my concern about the negative impact rhetoric has as a barrier to women in politics. Much can be done to improve this. We can host networking nights where the focus is on what it is to be a woman in politics. Women in politics themselves can draw on personal experiences and perspectives to encourage women with an active interest in politics and talk about what they can expect and the honest difficulties they will face, providing them with role models they can aspire to.
But we need to empower women so they can be successful, not because they are women but in spite of being women. Rather than continuing to classify them based only on their gender, we need to look at them as individuals.
As you're a government, I would encourage you to do nothing on the subject of women in politics. I do not believe any policies can be implemented that would shift the attitude about women in politics today. Rather, change must take place on the individual and societal level by first shifting the very way we talk about women in politics.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
That's excellent.
Thank you both very much for your statements.
We're going to begin our seven-minute round with Eva Nassif.
Eva, you have seven minutes.
Liberal
Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would like to thank both our young witnesses, who participated in the Daughters of the Vote initiative last year, for being with us today to talk about the barriers women face.
I'll start with you, Ms. Erickson. You participated in the Daughters of the Vote. Could you tell us what prompted you to take part in this Equal Voice initiative?
As an Individual
I was sent the link to participate in Daughters of the Vote by my female boss, who said that because I do a lot of work in politics, she thought I'd be really great at this. I thought about it, and said I thought this was a really great opportunity for me to meet other like-minded women to discuss barriers that we collectively experience in politics and to come up with strategies for how to overcome these barriers moving forward. When looking into Daughters of the Vote, not only was it a great experience to meet other young women, but they really focused on our passions as young women in society and what we would change, so I talked a lot about sexualized violence and how we need to address it differently; how, as leaders, we need to ensure that we're creating safe and inclusive work environments; and how we need to increase the representation of women at all levels of government. My main encouragement came from others around me who told me that I should sign up for this, but also from my own political aspirations and wanting to meet other like-minded individuals.
Liberal
Liberal
Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC
Yes, after your participation in Daughters of the Vote, did your perception change?
As an Individual
I think if anything it reconfirmed the fact that women experience many barriers and that we need to work together to dismantle these barriers. It taught me the importance of holding these national opportunities for women to come together to network and discuss issues. My perspective didn't change; it was solidified by the fact that we need to do more.
Liberal
Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC
Are young women like you also interested in other aspects of society, like community, or just politics?
As an Individual
I think a lot of it comes from changes I want to see in society, knowing that politics is a very direct way to advance policies to impact people's lives at a grassroots level. Another one of the issues I really care about is having universal opportunities for day care. We need to make sure that we have inclusive and affordable day care opportunities, because in this country, we know that the amount of money women have to pay changes for day care changes drastically depending on what riding and city they are a part of. That is one barrier I've noticed that impedes women's ability to run for politics.
It really started from, not only from being involved in my community and hearing experiences of other women, but also, for example, from being involved at the student political level. I ran and was successful at being president of my student society on campus. Some of the issues that made me want to run were women not feeling as though they were able to hold political office, some of the challenges around the comments that were being made towards women who do run. I wanted to ensure that I was challenging those and putting myself in a position where I could make positive changes.
Some of the issues I care about are affordable housing, making sure that, again, we're creating safe and inclusive environments for women to be part of, and ensuring that more women and diverse women are included at decision-making tables, because too often men have decided issues around health care that impact women's rights, and women aren't part of those conversations, or aren't part of them to the extent to which they can make a meaningful difference.
Liberal
Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC
Your biography says that you're an intern at Together Against Poverty Society, an organization that provides free legal support, in person, to women who are in need, who have housing problems, employment problems, and so on.
Based on your experience, would you say that these varied circumstances affect women's participation in politics? Tell us what you see and what you hear from these women who live in financial insecurity.
As an Individual
My time with the Together Against Poverty Society began when I was introduced to it while I was taking my social justice studies diploma at the University of Victoria. There was a practicum element, so I decided to be part of Together Against Poverty Society as a disability advocate. While part of this organization, I've seen how the various offerings of TAPS really support women, for example, their legal services.
Often when we talk about women's employment standards, we talk about the fact that there is a gender wage gap. I think this is where we're able to tackle at a systemic level women living in poverty and the fact that women are more likely to experience sexual misconduct in the workplace. TAPS is there to support these women in filing grievances, trying to figure out what their rights are, and coming forward, which I think is really important.
As for the gender wage gap in Canada, we know that women make 31% less than men. We know that it's estimated that 10% to 15% of the difference in what women are making in the workplace is based on gender-based discrimination that we can account for.
My time at TAPS has solidified my view of the fact that there are huge issues in our society and that women are overrepresented among people in Canada living in poverty. This is even more so for indigenous women and racialized women. Again, this is an organization that's understaffed, underfunded and that, unfortunately, needs to exist because of the gaps currently in government policy and the way it is implemented.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
You're done. Thank you very much.
We are now going to move on to Rachael Harder for seven minutes.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you to each of you for being with us today. We really appreciate it.
My first questions are for you, Shal. You made an interesting statement at the end of your remarks. You said that government should do nothing. Can you elaborate on that further? How do we create change if government doesn't do anything?
As an Individual
It's amazing because I find the greatest social change takes place outside of governments and amongst the people.
I think we give government too much credit when we say they're responsible for the change we want to see in society. I think that people who pursue ambitions to be a member of government can do great things, but when it comes to the issue of women in politics, I really feel that it's best done at the societal level.
In fact, I think what the government is already doing, such as introducing quota systems, further marginalizes women and creates an environment where we're taking women who are perfectly meritorious and saying that it's because of their gender that they get a position. I think that's demeaning and condescending to women who otherwise are perfectly qualified.
When I say that government ought to be doing nothing, I do not mean that the people in government ought to be doing nothing. I would actively encourage you and other members of Parliament to go to high schools to speak about women in politics. Talk of the first female cabinet minister who earned her place in the Diefenbaker cabinet, who earned her position fighting for immigration and other such reforms, and give people role models to aspire to. Share your experiences.
I feel that the quota system that the present government has introduced is harmful and demeaning to the spirit of equality of women, and I don't feel that government policy has a place in making what are essentially societal changes.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you very much.
Shal, in your estimation, would you say that we should be encouraging all women to run for public office, or is there a certain type of woman who should be running?
As an Individual
I think that's a really great question. I spent some time in engineering as a student, and we encountered that same sort of question. Which women ought to be in engineering? I think it's people who have a passion and curiosity for it.
When it comes to the ideal public servant, I don't profess to have an answer, but I think it should be people who care about the issues they represent, who are passionate, and who want to be involved in politics. I think we go too far when we say all women should be in politics, because many women don't want to be. They don't have those natural interests or inclinations, and that's not a bad thing.
Rather, we should be shifting the rhetoric for those who are interested in politics to feel that they can have a place there, regardless of occupation or income level—merely those who have a curiosity for it.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Is there a type of woman who should not be looking to run for office?
As an Individual
A woman who doesn't want to be there.
It sounds like a relatively simple answer, but I think that we go so far as to put pressure on women to pursue male-dominated careers because they are able to. I think that has a very negative impact on women.
We are all too quick to associate feminine careers as careers that women in a perfectly equal world shouldn't be in, but they want to. If they care about an occupation, they should be in that occupation, regardless of its associations.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Shal, basically what I'm hearing you say is that diversity should be encouraged, so that we have women participating who have all sorts of socio-economic backgrounds, geographical backgrounds, and ethnic backgrounds, and with different beliefs, values, and faces. I'm hearing you say that all of these women should consider running for public office if it's a passion of theirs.
Am I hearing you correctly?