Status of Women Committee on June 7th, 2018

Yes, I'm unequivocally against the quota system. I think that, especially here, being elected to one of the highest offices here in the House of Commons or in the legislatures across the country, having a quota system goes against the very principle of democracy. People should be electing who they want to see in Parliament and in legislatures, so if you're saying that the only way you're going to get there.... If my success is contingent upon this categorization of myself by nothing but my gender.... That isn't something I think of when I wake up in the morning. I don't think, oh, I'm a woman and therefore my life is going to be structured this way. No, I have to go to work; I need to make breakfast; I need to do this and whatever else.

I think that using the secondary characteristic as a primary driver in my life actually reduces me to nothing but my gender, and so to that end, I think having contested nominations is the best way to make sure women succeed. For me, just having the ability to get there, to just filing my paperwork and making sure I was ready to roll, the biggest thing was just turning off that little voice inside me that said, Don't”, which everybody has. As for an actual thing that we can all be doing, just ask women to run. If you see a competent woman sitting at the table at Tim Hortons or wherever she is, on the farm, and she's talking to you about politics or she's community-minded, why not just say, “Hey, have you ever thought about sitting on our EDA board?” Those are grassroots, organic initiatives that bring women to the table quite literally, which aren't necessarily government-imposed or some kind of structural demand.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

For those of us who are women and are elected, what can we do to encourage women to get further involved? Expand on that a little further.

As an Individual

I think that elected women can just make sure that.... We don't see women speaking on behalf of an entire group of women. I think it's incumbent upon the leaders of parties—and I think Mr. Scheer has done a very good of this—to make sure it's not just a woman speaking on “women's issues”. That's something we can change the narrative on. All issues are women's issues, just as all issues are men's issues.

As to women's equality and having a seat at the table, a man should ask a woman in the same way as I would ask another woman to sit at a table with me. I think that, by changing that narrative, elected women and elected people in general can have a greater impact than they think, because if we're constantly giving an economic portfolio to a man, or assuming that a woman wouldn't want that portfolio and that she would want, say, status of women instead, that's actually where we regress. Just making sure everything is open and available to people is the best step.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

You have about 45 seconds.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Michaela, as a woman who is running, you clearly have some experience. You're out there, you're knocking on doors, you're engaging with the general public, but you also have a perspective as a woman who's not quite elected yet. So my question is this. Would you say there are certain women who are better suited to politics than others?

As an Individual

I think the women who are better suited to politics are the ones who want to run. No, I don't think there are women who are necessarily better suited. However, I don't think you should be pushed, and that's why I think, coming back to the quota system, that's what we get. When there is a quota system, parties will seek out these women to run, and they might be saying they're okay with being stay-at-home moms, engineers, or whatever else.

Sorry—

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

No, it's okay.

As an Individual

—I do think it's really important that we seek out women who want to run, and I think the best kind of woman to be running is the one who is driven to and loves her community.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Okay, we're now going to go on to our next five minutes with Sean Fraser.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Excellent. I just have one question, and then I'll be sharing my time with my colleague Ms. Nassif.

Thank you for being with us today. Your testimony is very interesting and very important.

My question is for Ms. Bakopanos.

On the issue of quotas, you mentioned that personally you support them. We heard at great length during our economic study that the 30% threshold is where the conversation changes and it makes a meaningful difference. Companies make more money, and governments could make better decisions. There's an interesting sort of butting of heads between two ideas here.

How can we empower governments by having women cross that 30% threshold, without disenfranchising voters, whether it's people who vote in their nomination contests or voters who elect the candidate of their choice? I'm supremely interested in seeing us reach parity in the House of Commons. I think it would change everything about politics, but I also don't want to compromise the will of the electorate to choose their local representatives.

Do you have a suggestion on how we might marry these two interests?

National Board Member, Equal Voice

I'm also going to give my personal opinion.

To begin with, we mentioned the legislation before the House. We're talking about having incentives, rather than disincentives, for political parties in terms of how to increase the number of women who will be running.

I'd also like to say we can't do it without men, without the 49% of men who have been through the experience. I have also had male mentors, by the way, and quite important ones. I had Robert Bourassa, Jean Chrétien, and Jean Charest, to give you a few examples. We need the help of men. Feminism isn't about being against men. I want to put that on the table. I don't believe in that. Feminism has changed over the years, and we have a lot of men who are very supportive.

We need to work together to make sure there are enough voices around the table and on the ground. Never forget that there are many women working behind the scenes in politics, who have never aspired to run for office but who have done all of the work on the ground to do so. At least 80% of my volunteers were women, and this continues to be the case in general in most election campaigns.

It's going to take a new way of thinking about politics. Again, I'm going to go to what I said in the beginning. When we talk about public service, the people will see it as everybody coming forward to serve the public, rather than to serve a certain group, ideology, or feminism, if I can put it that way.

Executive Director, Equal Voice

Nancy Peckford

There are consequences in every election. We have a House of Commons now in which two-thirds of the members are new, non-incumbent, first-time electees, and we have 27% female representation there. The possible turnover in a House in which two-thirds of members are new is very low. Obviously we're going to see quite a few incumbents get re-elected. The capacity to turn over the House and potentially elect more women will take another decade. I really think if we break through 30% in the next election, that's the best we can do numerically.

Every election presents an opportunity to get more women in, but the minute we forfeit that opportunity, we're going to wait a decade because of how seats turn over. We have a major incumbency challenge. Quite frankly, in the last election, apart from the New Democratic Party, no party hit it out of the park, and we are now reaping those consequences. We really have to think long game here.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

I have no time left and Ms. Nassif has a question. I want to hear more, though.

Executive Director, Equal Voice

Nancy Peckford

Yes.

National Board Member, Equal Voice

We can pick it up after.

Liberal

Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC

Thank you again, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank our witnesses, especially Ms. Bakopanos, who is from Montreal. She's my friend. She was an MP from 1993 to 2006, if I'm not mistaken. So she served 13 years as a member of Parliament.

Ms. Bakopanos, tell us about the barriers you encountered as a candidate, a woman of Greek origin, with an immigrant background.

You mentioned that being a woman is a barrier. Yes. You know that I am a mother of triplets, that I ran for nomination twice—which I won—before entering politics at the same time as I was in school—I have two degrees—and all throughout my political involvement.

Tell us about the other barriers you faced in 1993 and what has changed now about being a female MP.

National Board Member, Equal Voice

Many things have changed, but we don't have time to go over everything. I'll tell you two things.

I myself come from a more or less macho cultural community—let's say that in a very nice way. I was the first woman of Greek origin elected to the House of Commons. So I was a phenomenon in a way for the men in my community. There are 15 of them who would have challenged my nomination. However, Mr. Chrétien, who was open-minded, received a mandate from Liberal Party members to choose women in order to reach 30% of female candidates. We talked about this earlier. It was the members who gave him that mandate, the members of the party. He didn't decide that himself. It all helped me and the riding I had.

The barriers for women who come from cultural communities are greater, in my opinion, than for other women from—

I don't want to say from the mainstream, but usually from the anglophone population. I got elected in a francophone riding in which women were actually considered.... Seventy percent of my first riding and 80% of my second riding—I had two ridings—was francophone, and having a female representative was not an issue. It was actually an advantage to be a woman. The francophone voters saw that as an advantage. The fact that I had young children was a disadvantage in my community. They thought I had abandoned my husband and children to do something else.

I could go on and on, but I think you've dealt with some of the barriers.

Liberal

Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC

That's not what I was asking.

I wanted to know what has changed between 1993 and now. Name one thing that seems different to you.

National Board Member, Equal Voice

Are you talking about what's changed these days?