Status of Women Committee on Oct. 17th, 2018

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I've heard the Haven Society, which is a really impressive domestic violence shelter in my community, Nanaimo, say they're already collaborating, already working well with other partner agencies but they have to design a new program and show new collaboration to qualify for the Status of Women funding. Then, having put great practices in place, they have to stop that and design something completely new. It's inefficient rather than caring.

[Lise Martin]

That's right. I don't know the full details but the program that was just announced earlier this week by Status of Women Canada seems to be following in that vein. It's called capacity building, but interestingly, you cannot include staff people you already have in the project. It's creating these very temporary positions.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

That sounds like the funding announced this week is not affixed to that, because it doesn't get at the core need of continuing the good programs that are established.

[Lise Martin]

It's not about sustainability. No.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Fantastic.

We're now going to Emmanuella.

You have seven minutes.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here today.

My first question is for you, Ms. Bushell, but I'm not sure if you'll be able to answer it.

Some women who experience domestic violence also experience financial manipulation. Unfortunately, in some cases, women's husbands will use the house as collateral or as a way to threaten the women before they leave. A lot of these women end up being affected by mortgages. Sometimes the husbands will refinance the house before leaving. A house that's almost paid off will now no longer belong to the family before the husband decides to leave, and the woman may end up homeless.

Is there anything in place that could protect people from these types of actions? Is there any background check done before people are allowed to refinance their homes? Is there anything that can be done in that respect?

[Jacquie Bushell]

It's a really good question. This past year, I had an experience based on that exact example.

I do not know the answer to that. It would have to do with registries. If the spouse is on the title, she has to acknowledge the refinancing. If the spouse is not on title, she also has to acknowledge the refinancing. Where it becomes complex is if there's a lawyer who is more favourable...and doesn't honour the independent legal advice of the wife.

So, from a mortgage perspective...not really, and I have seen it happen where the house was refinanced and the wife was not acknowledged.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Would you say it's more of an issue with the justice system?

[Jacquie Bushell]

Yes, as it pertains to real estate law.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Richter, a lot of women are suffering in silence, as you mentioned, hiding the homelessness. How do you go about finding these women? Is there an outreach strategy that your organization uses?

[Tim Richter]

There are a lot of different strategies that you could use.

It's important to remember that a lot of these women remain hidden, and we need to think about why. I think they're hidden because they don't want to risk losing their children to child and family services authorities—child welfare—in the provinces.

They are afraid of the mainstream homeless system. The mainstream homeless system, to be perfectly blunt, is a very, very dangerous place for women. There are very few services specifically for women. Outside of the domestic violence system, where would you go?

About nine years ago, I met a young girl here in Calgary at a homelessness event. She was 19 years old. She had a black eye. I asked what happened and how she got the black eye. She said, “Well, I was staying at a shelter here in town and one of my friends was raped in the bathroom. I had my boyfriend punch me in the face so that I could go to the domestic violence shelter.”

Women are taking extraordinary measures to avoid the dangers of the mainstream system and of homelessness. If we want to understand who those women are, we have to have services designed for women. We have to make the homeless system safe and accessible to them.

Imagine indigenous women and their interactions with child welfare or policing. They're not going to trust any of these organizations or mainstream systems.

We have to find a way to build systems that are responsive to the needs of these women and make it safe for them to access them.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

If they haven't reached homelessness yet, how would we be able to reassure them that they won't lose their children if they do seek help? I guess as it stands, there's not much in place.

[Tim Richter]

Child welfare systems in the provinces are a superhighway into homelessness for children who are in those systems. They are often more of a threat than a help to vulnerable women with their children, so they won't access those systems at all.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you.

Could you speak a bit more to the LGBTQ2 community? They really are underfinanced. How can we improve services for this community?

[Tim Richter]

Again, it comes down to working directly with the community, working directly with the individuals, understanding their unique needs and providing services, supports and housing that are safe to them.

For example, when you look at the homeless system and youth homelessness in particular, about 50% of homeless youth are homeless because they're LGBTQ and they've had some conflict with their families, but they don't have much by way of tailored services available to them.

Also, we find that people who don't conform to the gender binary, male-female, who may be trans or whatever, can't access services in either one of these systems. They're really dealing with multiple exclusions that make their lives very difficult. If I were to wave a magic wand, or if I could figure out a solution, it really comes down to having, and ensuring we have, tailored services, tailored housing and supports for these populations that are responsive to unique and individual needs.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

We're going to continue with our five-minute round.

Martin Shields, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll just quickly go to the mortgage industry.

There's a market here. If we don't find that market, there's no mortgage business. How do we find that market and how do we find that spot? The stress test is a problem, and you've mentioned that. Therefore, from the mortgage industry, how do we find that spot for this clientele we have that needs a home?

It's a piece there.

[Jacquie Bushell]

It is a tough spot. I will let Paul respond, but for me, for what I get to see, it's on the qualifying, because the income generally will be spousal support, child support and the child tax benefit. Being more liberal with that would be helpful, even if it comes with a time limit, and maybe a longer amortization for a period of time that allows for qualifying for these women, to help them into home ownership, until they can get on their feet and then go into regular financing.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Madam Chair, on a point of order, can I please remind the members that although we ended up with a witness list that was not tailored to the terms of the study, we did agree as members to just discipline ourselves to ask questions that were related to the study, which is domestic violence shelters and domestic violence transition houses.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

I look at the continuum of housing on this, recognizing that from the point of shelters and homelessness all the way straight through to the mortgage side.

I recognize what you're saying and we will have some pertinent questions. I do have one question for Lise after.

I respect where you're coming from, but we are looking also at the continuum of housing and how that may have an impact on the shelter study.

Thank you.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

However, again, it's not homelessness but domestic violence.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Taylor.

[Paul Taylor]

I suspect that the reason we were invited is we are somewhat peripherally related to this for the folks who are transitioning out of those shelters and trying to create new homes for their families, as victims of this abuse.

Jacquie would know this directly, but it's not uncommon for anybody who has been through any type of separation or dissolution of a relationship for there to be bruised credit on either side of that. For specifically the victims of violence, it's even less uncommon for there to be threats of financial repercussions, people refinancing homes, or just not paying bills as they arrive at the home when the spouse is left with the children, which creates additional problems for those folks when they're actually trying to find financing after the fact.