Status of Women Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2018

[Jeff Morrison]

Elsewhere in Canada, wait times vary with the cities. It's not uncommon for people to wait years for a social housing unit.

Very briefly, I was in Manitoba last week where I heard a story from one housing provider who said that there was a senior woman who had been waiting for about four years for a housing unit in Winnipeg. She was next on the list, and when they called her and told her that they had a unit available, she broke down in tears. That situation is very common among housing providers.

Those wait-lists can be excessive. The times are excessive. When people are literally crying with joy because they are able to access a unit after waiting so long, it shows you that the demand is there.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Can you explain to us the differences between men and women who need housing? Do women face special problems or obstacles, or do they have specific requirements?

[Jeff Morrison]

Women obviously have substantial social housing needs.

I think the challenge facing many women fleeing violence is the added—and I'll choose my words carefully here—pressure of having children with them. Given that a lot of the available units may be smaller—a bachelor or a one-bedroom unit—if you have children and are waiting for a two-bedroom or a three-bedroom or, God forbid, a four-bedroom, the wait-lists are significantly longer. For women, especially after having gone through a traumatic experience of violence, living with a family in a one-bedroom or bachelor unit is not a fun experience.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Earlier you referred to the national housing strategy and the Canadian poverty reduction strategy. I'd like you to explain to us why they won't make a change. We invest millions of dollars to create affordable housing, and I'm hearing you say it makes no difference.

[Jeff Morrison]

Just to clarify, the national housing strategy announced in November 2017 by Minister Duclos was an absolutely groundbreaking moment. We welcomed it. We worked very closely on it with Minister Duclos and CMHC. It reinserted the federal government into social housing and that alone was a huge step forward. I want to clarify that it was for us a very big moment. There are some challenges with it, and we can talk about some of those, but overall, the national housing strategy was a big moment.

I believe the strategy I was referring to with Madame Sansoucy was the anti-poverty strategy that Minister Duclos announced three or four months ago. It was a step forward, but really, all it contained in terms of direct measures to impact poverty were announcements that had already been announced, other than some new measures and some new accountability frameworks. My point was simply that we had hoped the strategy would contain new measures directly to impact poverty, such as, for example, what we're recommending—increasing the Canada social transfer.

Just to clarify on the housing strategy, we absolutely believe it will have an impact on addressing poverty, especially for women.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to start our next round, and that's five minutes.

We'll start with Rachael Harder.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to ask each of you the same question, and it is this. Those around this table are focused on a study having to do with access to shelter beds and access to the housing continuum. If you were to leave us with one final thought today that we should be sure to include in this report with regard to advocating for these women, their children and their futures, what would that one final thought be?

[Lisa Litz]

We're seeing a really promising shift in Calgary from a mindset that is about place-based provision of services for women—or anyone dealing with family violence—to something that is in the community and still provides social supports. I hope this committee will really continue to have a conversation about that piece.

[Jeff Morrison]

With the greatest of respect to this committee, I would suggest you change the focus of it. As we discussed, shelters are important and they play a role, but they are a band-aid. Shelters, especially for women fleeing violence, should not be seen as a solution. They should be seen as a step along the way. In terms of providing shelter for women fleeing violence, I would hope this committee would really focus on how we provide that ongoing access to safe affordable housing in the long term.

I know in many communities here in Ottawa, and I think in others, there have been some significant debates about shelters and about space for shelters in the communities. That's all fine and good, but some of these debates have missed that bigger picture question: Are shelters the right answer? Increasingly, I hope that people are concluding that they're not. They're temporary. They're a band-aid. We need to find the permanent fixes. Rather than trying to treat the disease, let's cure it. We do so by providing that access to safe, affordable housing and increasing the supply of it alongside the supports to it.

I hope that this committee will recognize in your final report that that's really what the solution needs to be for the long term.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you very much to each of you for coming and sharing your words of wisdom today.

Do you want to weigh in? Please do.

[Martina Jileckova]

We agree with Jeff that it comes to the emphasis on accessible, affordable, community-based housing. We know this from our experience, and we heard it from our partner agencies, including those who provide shelters or second-stage shelters.

I don't want to call it a caveat, but I cannot think of any other word to say it. I would probably leave with you that there is a time and place for shelters. We agree with Jeff that they should not be the exclusive focus, but they do have a place—a role to play. They have to be extremely temporary. We don't like to see women staying in second-stage shelters for nine months when we know that once whatever issue is addressed they could be moving on in a month or two. We do see them as an important part of that continuum, but as a very temporary, perhaps band-aid, short-term solution. Once that immediate danger is addressed, we need to move women very quickly from the shelter situation or the second-stage housing—which is really a shelter—into permanent, supportive, affordable housing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Okay. Are we all good?

Dominika, we have about 30 seconds.

[Dominika Krzeminska]

Since everyone else was throwing something in, I just wanted to say that it's essential that the national strategies such as the national housing, homelessness, and poverty strategies all align with coordinated policies and programs. Violence against women should not be seen as separate from the homelessness system, the housing system, poverty reduction system, justice, etc. That would be my one take-away.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We have our final line of questioning through Emmanuella Lambropoulos.

Emmanuella, you have five minutes.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Although my time is short, I would like to thank you all for being here with us today.

Sticking to the violence against women, we know that women going to shelters, like we said, is obviously a band-aid strategy. It's a solution that's very short term. Affordable housing is where we want them to end up, but there are so many things that happen in between for that transition to allow them to get there. Whether we increase the number of beds or we don't, these women still need extra support and not just a temporary place to stay, as we know.

What can you recommend for the government to do in terms of services offered at these transition homes or at these shelters? What do you think we should be funding, more than just infrastructure and beds?

[Jeff Morrison]

I think that question really underlies what we saw as the big missing piece from the national strategy. To answer that, I will respond by answering a question I was asked previously in another committee: Why shouldn't we just essentially hand over social and affordable housing to the private sector? They can deliver it more efficiently.

The answer has always been that, in the private sector, a housing unit is bricks and mortar. In our sector, it's bricks and mortar plus those social supports that are so essential. We are hopeful—and we will be calling for this over the next couple of months—that, as part of both the national housing strategy and the anti-poverty strategy, the big missing piece, which is some increased investment in social supports, can go hand in hand with that.

Increasing the Canada social transfer is probably one of the easier, less bureaucratic ways that the federal government could do that, ideally with some greater accountabilities on the part of provinces and territories. The federal government may wish to look at some direct federal-to-municipal transfers as well, given that municipalities play a key role in the provision of those kinds of health and social supports. It has been done in other sectors, and there's really no reason why a social support for municipalities couldn't also be considered by the federal government.

That's a key gap we need to discuss more. What role can the federal government play, and how can they more greatly support provision of those social supports?

[Martina Jileckova]

It's interesting, because I agree that we need emergency shelters and second-stage shelters for a very limited short period of time. What our partner agencies are telling us is that, once that immediate need is addressed, a woman with children is very successfully housed in community housing with supports. We no longer view the transitional second-stage housing as a progression, that thou shalt spend six months there because you are going through a program.

What we are finding really works in Calgary is that, once the immediate shelter need is addressed, moving women as soon as possible into community-based housing that's affordable with the supports still available is the most successful model.

It also happens to be more cost-effective in some ways, because you are no longer paying for a shelter bed if there's no immediate danger. You can take those dollars and, instead of putting them into operating shelter beds, which is traditionally not a cost-effective solution, you can house women in community housing such as Horizon and divert those dollars into social supports that are needed.

You ask what those are. There's lots we can do: financial supports, rent subsidies, financial literacy, life skills training, counselling for the trauma the women have gone through. Some women have a long history of family violence. Addictions and mental health issues may need to be addressed. We spoke about indigenous women, and they need cultural reconnections. We will move women into our housing, but they need that cultural reconnection that comes from social supports. Those are the types of supports that need to be funded.

We do believe that community-based housing with supports is a key to the solution.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much for being here once again. A lot of the women in my riding are of multicultural origins. There are a lot of immigrants in my riding. A lot of them don't necessarily know how the Canadian system works, how exactly to rent or buy a home and all of these things, so for sure these supports would be helpful.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

That ends today's panel. I'd really like to thank Martina Jileckova, Lisa Litz, Jeff Morrison and Dominika Krzeminska.

Thank you so much. This has been a really informative panel. We really appreciate your coming.

We'll be meeting once again on October 24, this Wednesday, from 3:30 to 5:30, when we'll hear from the Beauséjour Family Crisis Resource Centre, the Haven Society, the YWCA of Lethbridge and District, and the YWCA of the Northwest Territories.

Today's meeting is adjourned. Thank you.