Status of Women Committee on Dec. 10th, 2018

[Valerie Gideon]

The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights did table some recommendations, two of which are housed within our department, which are to improve access to public awareness materials on informed consent and on guidance on sterilization procedures.

Canada has also accepted the recommendation from Argentina, specifically, as part of the universal periodic review and Canada's report on that front. Last week, we received some concluding observations from the Committee Against Torture of the United Nations, as well. There are recommendations there for Canada to consider.

[Arnold Viersen]

If this were in a wartime situation, we might be accused of crimes against humanity. Would you agree with that?

[Valerie Gideon]

I'm not a Global Affairs representative. I regret to say that it's just not my area of expertise.

[Arnold Viersen]

Are you in contact with Global Affairs at all about this?

[Valerie Gideon]

I have not been in contact with Global Affairs directly, no.

[Arnold Viersen]

It's interesting. I read two articles from the news media recently. The caption on this one is “Morningstar Mercredi, pictured November 16, 2018, woke up from a surgery at 14 and discovered her developing baby was gone. What remained was an incision...cut without her permission.”

The other article, I think, is one that everyone has seen. It says, “When she was 17 years old, Liz was coerced by a Children’s Aid worker into having an abortion and being sterilized at a northwestern Ontario hospital, she says—an experience she’s carried for 40 years.” Reports from Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario suggest that this is still happening.

Forced sterilization is the topic that we're all talking about, but it obviously appears that other medical procedures are taking place without consent. Is this part of a broader effort on your part?

[Valerie Gideon]

Do you mean, to understand the issue?

[Arnold Viersen]

Yes. Forced sterilization seems to be just one part of this.

[Valerie Gideon]

Oh, I see. I'm sorry. Katherine is saying you're referring also to terminations and potentially other practices.

[Arnold Viersen]

Yes.

[Valerie Gideon]

I certainly agree that, in reviewing this issue, we do have to consider other impacts on indigenous women, impacts of racism or discriminatory practices that may be perpetuated in the Canadian health system in various ways, and to work with the medical professionals—and other health care practitioners, frankly—to ensure that we have a much more culturally safe environment for indigenous women across the country.

[Arnold Viersen]

I had a chat with the former head of the Indigenous Physicians Association, and I asked him about his thoughts on it. I'm wary of speaking for him in this forum, but I'd invite the committee to ask him to come in front of us, as well.

He said the underlying issue is that there is an idea that you can have too many children. Is that something the department has found as well, an underlying idea that you can have too many children and therefore we need to step in?

[Valerie Gideon]

Of the reports that have been written on this issue, I've seen that as a recurring theme. In our department, at this point, we have not fully reviewed or done direct research with respect to this issue. We've read through the reports that have been submitted, and I have heard that as a theme reported from women who have come forward.

[Arnold Viersen]

Is there something in the litany of things you are doing—I wrote it down—in or around that, to educate the health care system, saying that if these women choose to have this many children, there shouldn't be a problem with that?

[Valerie Gideon]

Absolutely. That would be part of cultural safety and humility training, which is also to not exercise judgements that are not based on any cultural understanding and actually listening to the voices of the women themselves.

[Arnold Viersen]

For sure.

I was interested that the first thing you mentioned off the top as an action that you're taking is a teleconference. Is that going to be a significant enough action to end it? This report—I don't know if it's legitimate or not—says that forced sterilization is still happening, and the government's solution is a teleconference.

Would we not want to engage the justice department on this?

[Valerie Gideon]

I was just going to say that this was an example of the most recent initiative where we've had dialogue with indigenous women's organizations and other partners.

We've actually been meeting and speaking with them separately for several months leading up to this point. We had a presentation back in June at our senior management committee, where we wanted to ensure that everybody was comfortable with the approach of setting up an ongoing advisory committee and hosting a specific forum with experts who could come forward and offer some advice and recommendations about what needs to be done.

Also, we will be looking at research in a way that indigenous women's organizations can provide a leadership role, to make sure that women feel safe coming forward.

That is a multitude of different actions. The teleconference is just an opportunity to say that we have very strong interest, and that a lot of organizations are interested in collaborating and working together to address the issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Excellent. Thank you very much.

Now we'll move over to Charlie Angus, for seven minutes. You have the floor.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for having me at your committee.

Thank you for your witness testimony.

You said that you've been engaged in this issue for a bit of time. When did you officially begin to look into the issue of forced sterilization of indigenous women in Canada?

[Valerie Gideon]

I would say that we started really looking at it in a specific way last fall, in 2017. We had been looking at cultural safety and humility, at racism in the health care system, and at the TRC calls to action much prior to that.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

I guess I would have been really shocked to find that women are being forced to be sterilized in hospitals in the north, in different communities—but, of course, if you have actually seen what happens, and the complete inequities faced by indigenous people, this kind of behaviour is actually not all that shocking. I think what's shocking is that it took a United Nations report on torture and a class action lawsuit to get this kind of issue brought to the fore.

The class action lawsuit, which named the federal government, was brought forward in October 2017, right around the time you said you started to deal with this. Were you not aware of this before the class action lawsuit, or was it not a priority? How did the class action lawsuit push your department into starting to address this and look at the cases?

[Valerie Gideon]

I think it was more the fact that the practice is being reported to still be occurring today. That was of significant concern to us. Within our department, we no longer run hospitals, outside of two hospitals in Manitoba, and in those hospitals we don't have surgical procedures. I think, for us, learning that this was still something ongoing in the health care system was of particular concern.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Right.

Measures to prevent births within national, ethnic, racial or religious groups are prohibited by the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. The UN has brought forward very specific recommendations for Canada, including a call that the names of those who've been involved in this behaviour be turned over.

As a defendant in this lawsuit, would you know of the specific cases where women have been forcibly sterilized? Are you willing to comply with the UN call to turn over the names of people who have been engaged in this practice to criminal sanction?

[Valerie Gideon]

I really can't comment on pending litigation. Again, it's not my area of expertise, with respect to that piece of the litigation.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Have you taken any steps to hear directly from women who have been sterilized, so that you can have a better sense of the inequities and abuses happening within the system?