With the departments and agencies we deal with in the area of health and a lot of the social programs at ESDC, gender-based analysis is an integral part of their program design, and we're finding that it's working very well. It isn't a struggle to get the data and information from them.
Where it's more obscure in the fundamental role of the program is if it's national security for Canada or it's dealing with the forestry sector writ large. It's setting regulations around that. It's very obscure. Those are the departments we have to spend more time and energy with.
Oftentimes, there can be gender issues. I'll give you a success story of sorts that we had at Treasury Board a couple of years ago. It was the border security agencies that were looking at the tools and equipment for the border services officers. They were focused on their job of securing Canadians and making sure that their job was well done. The type of equipment that we bought for the female and male border officers had to be adjusted quite a bit after a year of operations because of the effectiveness of that equipment and tools. It's those kinds of things. It was in the second year of the program operation that we learned of that, based on their feedback and their learning how they were going to deliver....
I don't want to make excuses, but there are some parts of the programming—and we do a lot at the federal level that doesn't directly touch Canadians—that are not as easy as you would imagine.