Evidence of meeting #43 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was men.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Thanks, and I'm going to share my time with Mr. Fergus.
I could probably ask all three of you this question but I'll ask Ms. Young.
Since we're looking at the economic security of women, could you pick one piece of legislation that you could perhaps see us improving and that would have the most impact on women's economic security?
Prof. Margot Young
It's easy to make a call for federal implementation and facilitation of universal child care. Quite simply, that would make a huge difference to the economic security of many women, particularly sole-parent families.
A lot of evidence shows that people have difficulty entering the paid labour force because of child care needs, the inaccessibility of child care, and the significant economic strain on households that the current child care situation presents, if you can get spots.
Liberal
Associate Professor, Department of Economics, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
It has always been very difficult trying to deal with federal-provincial relations in getting a universal child care program going. One thing I've suggested in the past is that instead of trying to create a federal universal system, it's perhaps better to think more about using those funds for something more targeted and having those targets on an individual basis rather than on a family-income basis, and in making sure that good subsidies are available for women who want to build careers but may not have the wage opportunities that would also cover child care costs. That is an alternative to consider in this context.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
One of the issues with child care is that one size doesn't always fit all. If you're working in the trades or in policing, for example, where you have to work night shifts, it can be a real challenge for women to find child care and to be able to pursue those careers.
I'm going to turn it over to my colleague.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
That's marvellous. Thank you very much.
Before I begin, I have to declare that I have a relationship with Dr. Lumpkin. In a previous life I used to work for the university sector and I had an opportunity to visit Mount Saint Vincent and to work with her closely. I always appreciated her leadership.
Dr. Lumpkin, Mr. Nesbitt, a witness on a previous panel, indicated how important it is to reach a certain threshold—a critical mass, he would say—for women to be involved in leadership positions on boards to improve the performance of the organization, as well as to achieve better performance all around.
And thank you for your opening comments. I note that one-third of the board of Universities Canada is composed of women university presidents, which is great. I'm assuming that's probably an average for other organizations of post-secondary institutions.
Can you offer some thoughts as to how universities themselves, which one would expect to be leaders in this field, move beyond that 20% level, which is not quite the critical mass?
I say this with all humility, because the House of Commons in Canada has only 27% female members and it was stuck in the low twenties up until this election, so we have no lessons to offer. I wonder if you have some reflections on that.
President and Vice-Chancellor, Mount Saint Vincent University, As an Individual
Thank you for that question, Greg. We're working on exactly that.
For example, one of the things we're going to do is meet with search firms that guide universities in hiring for senior positions to see what we can learn from them about unconscious bias, about barriers that are affecting the hiring selections. I'm pleased to say that—
President and Vice-Chancellor, Mount Saint Vincent University, As an Individual
Male-designed playgrounds, exactly.
In fact, I'm really pleased to share with you that last fall, at our national Universities Canada meeting, we brought in someone to train us in unconscious bias. There were about 60 university presidents—obviously, many of them males—who took part in that training. It's humbling. You think, “Oh, I don't have bias,” but in fact when you dig, you realize there are very human tendencies to like what's familiar.
Many of us are taking the unconscious bias training back to our own campuses. I think those are certainly some important things to do.
Perhaps not in the university sector, but on the appointment of boards, I'm starting to lean towards the idea that perhaps we're ready for quotas. I know that I'm being provocative, but we've seen that the OSC's “comply or explain” policy has only moved the needle 1%.
The Prime Minister decided to appoint a cabinet that was 50-50. You can call it a quota, but they seem to be very well-qualified women to me.
When I met with Anita Vandenbeld, chair of the National Liberal Women’s Caucus, back in the fall, she pointed out that the women's caucus now has more ministers on it than any other Liberal caucus and that they're doing gender-based analysis almost naturally.
Sometimes you have to intervene, and I want to see what would happen with quotas.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you for that.
Professor Schirle and Doctor Young, do you have some views on this matter, especially on the last point? Are we at the point where we should be thinking of quotas, or are we still in a “comply or explain” world?
Associate Professor, Department of Economics, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
I don't think the “comply or explain” world seems to have any effect whatsoever. Quotas are difficult, but I think they might be necessary, if nothing else, in order to have very clear targets with some sense of auditing employers to try to keep up with that.
It's a difficult thing to work with, especially in the private sector. I think the biggest challenge is convincing the private sector to get on board with this.
Prof. Margot Young
I concur. I think the methods we're employing clearly aren't working, and it is time to think about quotas.
There are a variety of different ways to implement quotas. With a sensitive and structured sort of approach, we can do much better at getting the kind of outcomes that we at least say we're committed to.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu
Excellent.
That's pretty much our time for today.
I want to thank all of our witnesses for coming, especially Ramona Lumpkin, whom I imposed on yesterday afternoon when she came to my office. I recognized her breadth of experience and said, “We simply have to have you on this panel.”
If you do think of something that you believe might be helpful to the committee as we go forward in our study, please feel free to send it to the clerk. I thank you again for the work you do to advance the economic status of women. Have a wonderful day.
Thanks to the committee.
The meeting is adjourned.