But anyway, I think that's what a lot of women experience.
I think what is incredibly important is the education of both boards and management, if that's what you're talking about there. But even at the level of tradespeople, you need to have education of employers. The unions are a lot better about this now, but you need to educate employers about what it means to hire women. You also need a critical mass of women. If you put one woman in there or two women in there, they're not going to make a difference, but if you have something near parity then something will happen.