Evidence of meeting #49 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was women.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Finally, we have just over one minute and you're not going to be able to do it justice, but I have a question on the issue of housing and shelters. We know there's going to be a significant investment in affordable housing, which includes a requirement in the mandate letter for the minister to address shelters as well.
How can we get this right? What are the key elements we can be looking at to make sure we don't waste billions of dollars?
Deputy Director, Canada Without Poverty
Essentially, one of the things we're saying, first and foremost, is to use the human rights framework. Part of this will involve accountability mechanisms and the ability of people to access the money. It's going to require dedicated resources and responses from the people who are receiving the money: is it working; are there enough shelter spaces? It's going to require that type of consultation, ongoing throughout the implementation process.
The other point to make is that not all women want to go to a shelter. There could be concerns about safety. There could be concerns about losing their children. What sorts of other programs in the housing structure, then, are you putting in place? It could be a rent supplement program that's portable; it could mean that there are different transitional housing options, and so on.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Very quickly—there are 10 seconds left—when we talk about international obligations, are you specifically referring to, for example, CEDAW and the International Convention on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights?
Deputy Director, Canada Without Poverty
Yes, but if you are talking about housing as well, look primarily first at the International Covenant on Economic, Cultural and Social Rights and then at CEDAW also.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Pam Damoff
We'll turn now to our Conservative friends—Ms. Harder—for seven minutes.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you very much.
I want to clarify something very quickly. I believe, Kate, it was you who were talking about voluntary versus involuntary reasons for part-time employment.
Can you clarify what you said? Are you saying that women more often are in part-time employment for involuntary reasons?
Senior Researcher, National Office, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
First of all, women are twice as likely to work part-time than men. If you look at the women who are working part-time, you will see that just over 700,000 of them cite involuntary reasons. There's a portion of women who are part-time who say that's voluntary. That percentage hasn't changed much at all over the past 20 years.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
I just want to make sure that we're clear then. Would you say that their choice is more involuntary than voluntary?
Senior Researcher, National Office, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
Statistically, more women cite involuntary reasons than voluntary reasons.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
For the sake of this report, I do want to correct the record. Again, in the Statistics Canada 2016 report, voluntary reasons given by women equated to 18.8% and involuntary equated to 11.4%.
Would you agree to accept those statistics?
Senior Researcher, National Office, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
I would have to look at my Excel spreadsheet, but that's not my recollection of the statistics I've looked at for 2016.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
For the report going forward, I think it's in the best interest of Canadians to accept Statistics Canada.
Senior Researcher, National Office, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
I agree.
Conservative
Senior Researcher, National Office, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
The labour force survey.
Conservative
Senior Economist, Canadian Labour Congress
I can help with that. In their official reports, StatsCan doesn't count child care as an involuntary reason, but a lot of—
Conservative
Senior Economist, Canadian Labour Congress
—people who use Statistics Canada statistics do count child care as involuntary. When StatsCan puts out their statistics, they don't, because of a decision they've made. That would be the difference.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Okay. It's good just for us to understand the definitions and the basis that we're functioning on here today. Thank you.
Kate, you also mentioned the STEM fields and women's entry into STEM. This is where we see fewer women participating, in both STEM and agriculture. In your opinion, how could we increase women's involvement in these two areas?
Senior Researcher, National Office, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
I think you've heard from some folks who have more experience than I do working in this, for example, from the Canadian Women's Foundation. I've been in front of this committee speaking specifically to this issue with people who have been engaged in programs that help women enter those fields. What I've heard consistently from the folks who are directly involved in this is that you need a long-term approach. What we see, for example, is women going into apprenticeship programs and having difficulty even completing the apprenticeship program for a variety of reasons, whether it's experiencing some hostility, whether it's access to child care, whether it's a matter of choice. Then they come out and enter the workforce.
For example, the last time I was in front of this committee, one of my fellow witnesses gave an example of a woman. She was working with a factory, whose owners wanted to have more women working in the factory. The entrance to the factory went through the men's change room.
You need to follow people right through the apprenticeship process, through the job entry process, working with employers, and then into their time in employment. Again, we see women who complete their apprenticeships, go into the trades, for example, and then drop out after two, three, or four years. I think the Canadian Women's Foundation has done really good working on trying to support those women so they can stay in those fields. Again, I think it's a question of really working with those women all the way through that first five, or even 10, years of their entry into those fields.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
My next question is for Megan.
You mentioned the low incomes and that your goal, of course, is poverty reduction, which I fully support. When I look at the statistics, they show that 13.5% of women and 12.5% of men have low income. The gap there is only 1 percentage point. However, if we take a closer look, we know that among women, it's those with disabilities, those who are aboriginal, those who are visible minorities, those who are recent immigrants, those who are unattached, and those who are over the age of 75 who are disproportionately affected with a lower income.
I'm looking to you for some guidance on how we might alleviate or solve this issue that is before us with regard to these specific groups for whom we see the greatest gap.
Deputy Director, Canada Without Poverty
I think there are various ways to do it. For example, when we talk about poverty, it's never a silver bullet solution.
You've heard a number of really great ideas at this table. Of course, we're presenting ideas with regard to housing. There is child care; there are wage gap issues. We know from our colleagues and some really great research that women who are paid less are struggling with things like housing and child care to a greater degree than men who are earning more. That could explain why lone-parent mothers are disproportionately represented in the poverty statistics in terms of wages. It could also explain why some of the older women are in precarious situations now as seniors. They weren't able to save, they didn't have the same retirement options, or the same jobs with pensions.
I think what needs to be said is that a lot of these women need boosts from a number of angles, whether it's housing supports or the universal child care program. They're not able to fully contribute or be of equal status because some of these programs aren't reviewed through a gendered lens. In that sense, when I say the word “affordable”, what could be affordable for a single father is different from what's affordable for a single mother. Even that word itself needs to be considered in terms of what it means for women. One of our recommendations was to review current policies and programs because they do have different impacts on women.
Legal Education and Outreach Coordinator, Canada Without Poverty
I'll just add one thing. The other piece is that we can look to a couple of international mechanisms and review processes at the United Nations for how to address these numbers for marginalized groups. You're right in saying that, among the women who are living in poverty, those numbers are very stark when we look at women with disabilities, racialized women, and indigenous women.
Coming up in April at the committee on the rights of persons with disabilities, we're going to see issues of women living with disabilities and in poverty, as their economic and social rights come under review by a United Nations treaty body. We ratified this covenant in 2010, so it's our very first moment on the international stage for this. However, we can look to those international examples and those review processes to inform our processes going forward.