Evidence of meeting #57 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was system.
A video is available from Parliament.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
10:15 a.m.
Senior Advisor on Justice and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada
No. It hasn't.
10:15 a.m.
Executive Director, Ending Violence Association of British Columbia
My feeling is that the National Judicial Institute is starting to open up. I've been working in this field for 35 years and just last year was invited to do a one-off workshop for a group of provincial court judges at a national judges' conference on domestic violence and homicide.
The issue is embedding systemic change. I think the judges would say that there is a course on sexual assault for new judges or there is some training that happens at national conferences, but mandatory, embedded training, whereby....
As has been said by others, it shouldn't happen in a silo. I think the judiciary and the national training institute for judges should be working with those of us who have some expertise, who have been providing training across the sector, to ensure that the training that's going forward is founded from a perspective of women's and survivors' experience of sexual assault and is founded from a trauma-informed perspective. I don't think they should be working in silos any longer.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you.
Ms. Lopez, has your organization ever been consulted?
10:15 a.m.
Liaison Officer, Regroupement québécois des Centres d'aide et de lutte contre les agressions à caractère sexuel
No. We've never been consulted on the issues. I agree with what Tracy is saying. It's very important with these types of initiatives that the groups on the ground that have the expertise be consulted. I see it over and over again. The groups aren't consulted, then these projects are pushed forward, and finally they don't address the realities that victims, or survivors face in sexual assault.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you very much.
Again, this is a question for each of you. Of course, you talk within your various networks to other organizations. Are you hearing overall support for this bill? Are there other organizations that you're talking to that would say, “Yes, we're in support of this bill going forward”?
I'd like to start with Tracy on this one.
10:15 a.m.
Executive Director, Ending Violence Association of British Columbia
Yes. Across the board I have not spoken to anybody who isn't in support of the bill. Many people like me would like to see some changes to the bill in terms of training for all federal judges, not just the new ones. We would also like to see a mechanism for provincial court training, in police, and so forth, everything that I've already said.
I would say that the 240 programs under our umbrella and the national associations that I co-chair have endorsed the bill unanimously.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
10:15 a.m.
Liaison Officer, Regroupement québécois des Centres d'aide et de lutte contre les agressions à caractère sexuel
There is general support for the bill among groups that work with sexual assault victims, but we're also fearful that if the bill is passed it will be seen like a panacea to confronting the systemic barriers that exist for victims and survivors when accessing the criminal justice system.
Also, we're fearful that it will just be an initiative that will be imposed on newly appointed judges. I think it's important that all judges be pushed to have this training. I think it's very important that we address the fact that it's not only the judges who need to be trained but police officers, even people who offer services, health services. I think we shouldn't concentrate all our efforts only on judges. That's really important for people who work on—
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
10:20 a.m.
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
Yes. In speaking with some of my friends, my colleagues, in British Columbia, we felt that if this type of training had been offered earlier it would have probably been supportive of inquiry, where women would have felt more confident in the system to report their cases.
As my colleagues have pointed out, this is the type of training that needs to be incorporated in the whole process. Personally, I've gone with a friend to a centre and when she wanted to go through the process it was very daunting, so then you don't have a reporting of an incident.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
I totally understand that. I think this is a good first step. I think we have to start with the judiciary, and of course it doesn't stop there. We definitely need an overhaul of the whole system.
We only have a few seconds left here. Lise, what are you hearing?
10:20 a.m.
Executive Director, Women's Shelters Canada
It's definitely support, but I think it would be a missed opportunity to just zone in on sexual assault. It should be on the whole continuum of violence against women and gender-based violence.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
10:20 a.m.
Senior Advisor on Justice and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada
Again, I want to rearticulate including a distinct chapter or course or component that deals with indigenous women.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Are you hearing organizations in support of this, though?
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu
I'm sorry. That's your time.
We're going now to Ms. Malcolmson for seven minutes.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Sheila Malcolmson NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thank you, Chair.
I'll say to all the witnesses, as I did to the first panel, that this “big picture” comprehensive approach is exactly what Canada committed to at the United Nations when it said it would adopt a national action plan to end violence against women and would take that leadership to intercept the training of judges, of police officers, whether municipal, territorial, or provincial.
We're very sorry that the Conservatives didn't fulfill that commitment when they were in power and the Liberal government is also saying that they won't. The NDP keeps pushing it and saying this is the solution. I appreciate this is a private member's bill that's only able to take one narrow slice, but it's because we haven't had implementation so far of Canada's commitment to the UN 20 years ago....
That said, I want to turn to the Native Women's Association. Thank you for raising again the terrible story of Cindy Gladue, in Alberta, because we haven't said her name in this committee review yet. I would ask you to expand a little more on how training for judges could be created in a way that's sensitive to the cultural and differently lived experiences of indigenous women.
Maybe a second part of that question is, would it be helpful for groups like NWAC—actually, I think you said this maybe in response to my Conservative colleague.... But is there anything you want to add about the imperative to review and shape the content, so that judges really are delivering their judgments in a culturally sensitive way?
10:20 a.m.
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
I'll say a little bit here and then I'll pass it to Chad.
I think what we need to see is that this training, as Ms. Martin mentioned, also incorporates the history that affects indigenous women.
We've had the history from residential schools. The traumas are affecting women. They're affecting the perspective of Canadian society towards indigenous women, so that we unfortunately don't have indigenous women who feel respected or valued. This type of training can start to open up the eyes of Canadian society and the judicial system.
I'll pass it to Chad and he'll talk more about what we see this looking like.
10:20 a.m.
Senior Advisor on Justice and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada
This training should incorporate everything that Francyne has mentioned, but it should also incorporate the unpacking and unfolding of the systemic injustices within the criminal justice system that impact a lot of aboriginal offenders and victims as well.
It's not just the judges but also the crown and defence counsel who devalue or see less value in an indigenous person when they're in the criminal justice system.
I think it's important for the entire judiciary to understand that it's not that they're less productive or have nowhere else to go. They're equal citizens in Canada, and I think that needs to be attached to any type of comprehensive education package.
10:25 a.m.
NDP
Sheila Malcolmson NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Turning to Lise Martin, can you tell us more about the on-the-ground outcomes you've seen? What's the collateral damage to women who have come forward and then don't feel fairly treated by the justice system? Can you illustrate that a little bit more? What's the damage from not improving the system and not giving victims and survivors a better day in court?
10:25 a.m.
Executive Director, Women's Shelters Canada
I think it's often a case of daily occurrences of bad decisions that just build on one another and make it difficult for women to move out of this life of violence that they are living, essentially.
I have a family court example of a judge providing time for his preschool children, very young children, whose contact with the dad was via Skype at nine o'clock, to accommodate his schedule.
That's the type of daily occurrence that has an impact on the bigger picture. I think that's where this training just has to have so many levels, different levels of understanding. Also, it needs to be put under an intersectional framework and a gender equity framework, because that underpins everything.