Evidence of meeting #60 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was irving.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
One of the things you said in your opening remarks was along the lines that it wasn't just academic or professional growth but personal growth as well. Can you expand on that a little more? What was the personal growth that took place through this job opportunity?
10:20 a.m.
Welding Intern, Women Unlimited, Irving Shipbuilding Inc.
I worked in the tourism industry for over 20 years, so I had to make a decision. Do I go back to school and is it going to be worth my while to do that to provide for my family?
While I did make that decision and got into the program, the personal growth they help you with.... They do the academics, your math, those types of things, upgrading, anything you may need. On the other side, they help you to be an individual. They help you to see the stigmas that are out there and to combat them.
They're really all about us and our sisterhood, the 20 women who were in the program. It's more about us growing as a group. Even though I'm a mature student and was a mature woman at the time, I still had some personal growth to do. I still had to see that this was something I could do, it was not just a male-dominated field, and anything was possible. They always reassured that for all of us.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you very much, and my thanks to all the witnesses for your presentations.
I think pretty well all of you have mentioned the issue of child care and the importance of access to affordable child care for women in the sector. Of course, it's kind of hit and miss because we don't have a national affordable child care initiative across the country.
I wonder whether or not our government should bring in a national affordable child care program for everyone in every sector across this country. I will start with Jacqueline on video conferencing and then we'll go around the table.
10:20 a.m.
Director, Industry Relations, Women Building Futures
I'm nodding my head before you finish, and I'm saying, yes, absolutely. I certainly think that's what's needed. I know in Alberta and across Canada it's not readily available. It's not affordable and the quality is not controlled. The child care that people can afford with convenient hours may not have the quality women need to feel comfortable about leaving their children. It's an issue of confidence, too. If a woman is uncomfortable with where she has left her children, she's not going to do well and she's not going to lead herself to economic prosperity.
I really can't overestimate the importance of universal affordable child care. Yes, I think the federal government should do that.
10:20 a.m.
Welding Intern, Women Unlimited, Irving Shipbuilding Inc.
Definitely, for me, the answer is yes. I have twins, so it was financially hard for me to put them both in at the same time, paying the same rates, and they were very high.
In my second year, I started at 7 a.m. and child care didn't open until 7:30, so it was a big barrier for me to have to find someone every morning to depend on so that I could go do my studies. Also, now in my career, we start pretty early and it's the same thing. None of them is open. If they are, or they're private independent child care services, they're very expensive.
10:25 a.m.
Manager, Value Proposition and Community Relations, Irving Shipbuilding Inc.
I think we certainly have seen that. I know Doreen commented that child care can be a barrier to workplace entry. It certainly has to be addressed.
10:25 a.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you.
I'm going to ask about the approach that I think Irving Shipbuilding has taken in their partnership with the Women Unlimited Association, which is fantastic. We heard earlier from Doreen about the successes.
In British Columbia, where I come from with my colleague Sheila Malcolmson, when the government built the Vancouver Island Highway, we mandated equity requirements, and from there it went from 2% to 20% in the labour force in the sector, which is fairly significant. We've heard that if you can't see it, you can't be it. We've heard this over and over again at this committee.
From that perspective, is it time for a government to use examples like yours as a template? We have a lot of infrastructure programs coming up. Is this not a template or a model to say that for all of these contracts, here's the requirement?
I will go around the table on that, starting with Sarah.
10:25 a.m.
Manager, Value Proposition and Community Relations, Irving Shipbuilding Inc.
The Women Unlimited program is one of our favourite things to talk about because it has been so successful, and we do think it can benefit other industries and other regions. We've seen great success to date, but I'll certainly say that we're not done. For us, true success for this program is not when we hire these women. It's when they have gone through their apprenticeship program and have reached Red Seal. It is when Denise retires from marine shipbuilding in 25 years, or 30, or however long—who knows?
In that long-term view, this could happen numerous times, and it could happen in other industries and other partnerships. It, absolutely, is something that I think Women Unlimited's model.... They have been wonderful to work with. They have 10 years of proven success.
We've heard from our partners. We were talking to GE Canada, and they were interested and wanted to talk more about it, and about how they can adapt it to their programs. We've had interest, and I certainly hope that everyone—government, employers, unions—continues to champion projects like this one.
10:25 a.m.
Welding Intern, Women Unlimited, Irving Shipbuilding Inc.
I was just going to say the same as what Sarah said. I'll add that, as women going into the trades, it gives us more confidence, as well, because of the stigma. We have the support we need from other women—Women Unlimited, as well—and they help us conquer our barriers. It helps us better.
If other companies, businesses, and unions jumped aboard and did projects like this.... It just gives the women themselves, from young to old, more of that confidence that they can do this and that they can be just as good as men.
10:25 a.m.
Director, Industry Relations, Women Building Futures
Women Building Futures has had the opportunity to engage in many successful partnerships with industry that have yielded amazing results through partnership and through owners really working with us to ensure that their contractors are hiring the women who come through our programs.
I have a couple of examples with Suncor Energy. We have put 50 women to work in the mines in northern Alberta at Fort Hills and at Millennium mine, and 88% of them have stayed. Their income increased about 168%, and that was all through the initiative of Suncor. Suncor realized that diversity of workforce leads to diversity of thought, and it also realized that this was a much more palatable option, cost-wise, than importing labour from outside of the country and from other provinces. Its workforce right now in operators—those who drive the trucks in the mines—is just about 20% women.
Another partnership we've had that has been extremely successful is with North West Refining, the largest refinery in western Canada over the last 50 years. That was a tripartite agreement between the unions—the iron workers, the carpenters, and the insulators—North West Refining, and WBF...and their contractors as well. NWR was forward-thinking enough to really fund and spearhead this partnership with us, and we went to the unions to help us with the training.
With regard to Denise's point, the women knew they had employment after, so there was that light at the end of the tunnel. Through that partnership we have 50 women who have successfully been trained as iron workers, carpenters, scaffolders, and insulators, and who started their careers as apprentices at the refinery.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu
Very good.
Now we're going to go to Mr. Colin Fraser for seven minutes.
Welcome.
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Thank you all for your presence today and for your wonderful presentations.
Denise, I want to tell you how impressed I am with your presence here today, with the presentation you have made, and with all you have done in starting this new career.
I think you said you're on a five-week placement right now in Irving shipyards, and then after that, it will be determined whether or not you're hired on. I would say I have a pretty good feeling after today's presentation that you will likely be working for Irving for a long time. I think that's wonderful. I want to congratulate you very much for everything you have done—
10:30 a.m.
Welding Intern, Women Unlimited, Irving Shipbuilding Inc.
Thank you very much.
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
—but also for coming here today to help us understand a bit better some of the barriers that are faced by women who are trying to get into the trades.
With regard to the certification process to become a welder, can you explain a bit about how that actually has worked for you up to this point? Do you have your Red Seal already? If not, what next steps have to happen for that?
10:30 a.m.
Welding Intern, Women Unlimited, Irving Shipbuilding Inc.
In your first two years, I'll say, you need 6,000 hours to go back to school to do your Red Seal. When you leave community college, you have a little over 2,000 hours. Then you go in and work with a company for the rest of the hours, and you go back and do your Red Seal.
In the first two years, you get four tickets, which are your stick and flux core tickets; you have flat and horizontal. In the second year, you do your vertical and overhead. So you do leave the school, hopefully.... You don't have to do them, but basically that's what they want you to have when you finish your two years of school.
I was fortunate enough to be hired by the school as a part-time welder for things they needed, and they gave me the opportunity to do my tickets without having to pay for them. You can train through the college. I came out with 11 tickets, so I have more than I need. I'm just going to work more.
They have a training facility at Irving, so once I am there, or if I am there, I will obviously be training to get more tickets and some specialty tickets, as well. Once I reach my 6,000 hours in the apprenticeship program, I go back to school for seven weeks and I do my Red Seal.
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
At the Nova Scotia Community College, how many women were in the program during your time there? I believe it was 20.
10:30 a.m.
Welding Intern, Women Unlimited, Irving Shipbuilding Inc.
We started with 20. For other reasons, personal reasons, a few of them left, but this year we finished with 17 in welding and metal fabrication.
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
How does that compare with the number of men in the program at NSCC?
10:30 a.m.
Welding Intern, Women Unlimited, Irving Shipbuilding Inc.
We were pretty much even. There are usually about 20 in each class. There were two metal fabrication programs and two welding programs going on at the same time. There were two classes that were together, early morning, at 7 a.m., and we had about 40. I'd say we were half of the class. If it weren't for Women Unlimited, there would have been maybe two.