First, let me just comment on the quota and the actual number, because I do believe that you have to set a number that is high enough. The last thing you want is a woman eventually ending up wherever it might be, whether on the board or in senior roles, and she's the token quota woman. That is almost the worst outcome. The stigma around of would counter and negate any progress we're trying to make with it.
The reason why most countries actually have jumped on at least 40% is that, once you have 40% women around a table, it's kind of hard to stigmatize somebody. I think there is a magic in the number, because you do need to have a number that is high enough. Slowly phasing it in at 10%, 20%, or 30% will not do. It would create a huge disservice, in my opinion, for the women who are the poor 10%, 20%, or 30%, until that number of 40% has been reached. For that reason, I would say that you do need to jump in with a high enough number that this whole issue of being ostracized or being the quota woman is not present. That would be one part of that.
Is there something that can be done on a larger scale or in various sectors? We have been looking at that. You might have seen, Mr. Chair, the 30% Club campaign, to get a minimum of 30% women in various roles—although it does vary by sector. Of course it does. We have the professional services sectors and the banks. They're behaving beautifully. Their trends over the last five to 10 years are all very positive and they have done a beautiful job in advancing women on the larger scale.
It is not kicking in at all in some industries where, I would say, the CEOs in many cases have not bought into the idea. You can almost categorize it into CEOs who have been converted and are happy to do something; the CEOs who believe in the cause, but don't know what to do; and the CEOs who do not believe in this at all and for whom there is no sensible business case for advancing women. You find that last category predominantly in the natural resources sector and energy technology companies, unfortunately, and it is the hardest to break into those areas. Even with conversations, it's difficult to get to the right conversation and the right discussion.