Status of Women Committee on June 20th, 2017

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

All right, ladies and gentlemen. Here we are with our committee business. It's going to be sort of an interesting meeting today because, as you know, we're supposed to have votes. The bells are supposed to go at 10:05. It's unfortunate that our panel is in the second half, but we'll have as many of them give their opening remarks as we can before the bells go, and the bells could be delayed. You can never predict what's happening in the House.

For our committee business, there are a couple of things. First, we talked last week about the letter that's going to the justice minister on Bill C-337, and we have the final changes. Do any of you have any issue with the draft that was updated and sent to you? Okay, so that can go. Wonderful.

Today, our main topic of discussion is what we will study after the economic status of women. The clerk did email to you the list of all of the things that previously we had suggested. This was so that you could check off what we've already studied and we could look at the ones that are left. However, are there any that you would like to bring forward by way of a motion?

Ms. Damoff.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Sheila actually brought this forward a year ago: a study of indigenous women in corrections. I'm just looking at Sheila's original motion, number 11.

I'll tell you one of the advantages that we have in this status of women committee. We've talked about the indigenous population in corrections in the public safety committee, which I sit on. However, the issue isn't just in corrections. It is also in the justice system. The public safety committee can't look at the two, and the justice committee can look at the justice system but not corrections. The fastest growing population in our corrections right now is women, and of those women, it's indigenous women. I think in some of our corrections facilities it's 63% that are women.

The advantage that the status of women committee has is that we're not limited to only studying justice or only studying corrections. We can look at it fully from access to the justice system right through to corrections. We can also look at access to early release because indigenous offenders do not access early release at the same rate as other offenders. We can look at it with a particular focus on women, obviously, but it's an issue that we can take a broader scope of than other committees in the House of Commons.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Is the suggestion to study motion 11 with a specific focus on indigenous women?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Yes. I'm just reading it. It's not to study women's access and treatment in the justice system; it's to study indigenous women's access.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Okay.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I want to make sure we're focused on the federal side of things. Let me just review it again here because we tend to wade into provincial....

Laura, could you help with the wording to make sure that we're focused on the federal side? Obviously, we were involved in writing the Criminal Code, but for things like legal aid and access to legal aid, which is—there is no doubt—an issue for indigenous women.... We need to put a federal spin on those so we don't end up with a report that has a whole bunch of things that are actually under provincial jurisdiction.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

All right. That would be one idea.

Ms. Vecchio.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

You just took the words out of my mouth because I was going to say that I've sat down with some indigenous groups. The other day I was at the London Abused Women's Centre, which does an outreach to all of the correction facilities and does different things, so I was going to say that I love that idea. I would like to see it broadened to indigenous women in the justice system, but we have to be very cautious of the difference between what's provincial and what's federal. I do like that idea.

If there is a way to expand it so that we can look at—I know we can't look at legal aid—anything that deals with those issues, any supports that they have in communities, and things like that as well....

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

We're not going to be starting this until the fall, but I'm wondering if, before we actually start the study, the analyst could do a bit of a summary of where the federal government can actually have an impact in terms of justice in particular. Corrections is fairly easy. We're running the corrections facilities. In terms of early release and the types of situations within corrections—whether there are healing circles or elders who have access to the corrections facilities—I think that one is a little easier. On the justice side, if you could look at where we can....

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Yes, it would be nice to get a summary of what has been done and what has been looked at already so that you see what the gaps are.

Ms. Malcolmson.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I appreciate the support for my motion, which was more than a year ago but which we didn't ever debate. I appreciate that we need an indigenous women's focus. I'm a little bit concerned about the optics of making it look as if it's only indigenous women who are having trouble with the law. I'm sure we can manage that, but there are systemic problems, which is why my motion, proposed back in March 2016, was about women's experience with the justice system.

My priority remains a study on domestic violence shelters. Because my previous motion to study women's access to domestic violence shelters was voted down by the committee, at the clerk's advice I have a slightly different motion that updates it. I can put that on the record. I provided it yesterday to the clerk, or my staff did.

I move:

That given the recent finding of gaps in shelter services by the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities' 7th report, “Breaking the Cycle: A study on Poverty Reduction”, the committee study the shelter and transition house system in Canada; that the study include an examination of the current gap between need and available beds and shelters and transition houses; that the study include an examination of current federal programs and funding in support of shelters and transition houses; that the study consider possible solutions to address the gap between need and supply; that the committee report its findings to the House; that the meetings be televised; and that the committee request a government response to its report.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

I really like the motion that Sheila has brought. One of the things that has become clear to me as I sit and listen in the House is the crisis situation that we're in with shelters, and it's clear that the government alone is not going to be able to fix the gap, so it would be very interesting to study and try to figure out what else could be done, what combination of things.

Are there other ideas?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Could I just comment?

Sheila, you were talking about women in corrections versus indigenous women, recognizing that there is an issue with women going into our corrections. There is no doubt, but it's disproportionately indigenous women and they are the fastest growing segment. There is obviously an issue with women going into corrections, but the fact that even more of those women are indigenous women indicates that there is something wrong somewhere in terms of these women going to prison versus being released back into the community. I don't know the reasons, and that's why I think it's important to do the study.

It certainly doesn't indicate in any way, shape, or form that it's only indigenous women going to prison, but the fact is that it is a crisis that more indigenous women are going into corrections. I think we should try to deal with that particular issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Ms. Vecchio.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Just moving away from that, another motion I know we had discussed—and this would be almost like a sub-continuation of what we've just done—is to look at women on boards and whether there have actually been any changes after “It Starts with One – Be Her Champion” and a variety of other programs have gone on. It is a motion to study what impact these federal programs have had on any of the women on boards, and things of that sort.

Because we've been doing this economic study, we may want to age that for the next study afterwards, but that's an opportunity as well to look at boards and things of that sort.

Also, there was a discussion—and I will bring this forward on behalf of Stephanie—about looking at women in politics. That's another, and she can read the motion if you wish.

Go for it.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Okay. This is a rough draft.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I have a point of order, Chair.

I have a motion on the floor, so how are we going to handle that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Certainly, we have the first motion. If you want, I can deal with them each as motions, and we can go on like that.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I didn't hear Pam's as a motion, so that's why I thought I was first in the queue, having said, “I move that”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

I think that if we checked the Hansard, you would be right, so before we go to this one we'll deal with your motion.

Sheila's motion is the reworded motion number 10, to study shelters.

Is there any discussion on that motion?

(Motion negatived)

Now, Pam, do you want to change yours to make yours a motion?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I'll make mine a motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

This one is motion 11, with the change that the focus is indigenous women.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

And with the proviso that it can be amended after seeing what the analyst comes back with in terms of federal jurisdiction.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Correct.

Is there any discussion on the motion?

Ms. Vecchio.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

It's not so much a discussion on the motion, but it's on the discussion. Let's get everything on the table so that we know what our best study is going to be. It's great to have these motions, but we're voting and we may have had an excellent study that we've just turned down because of the process.

We should try to put everything in the pot and then decide what's going to be best for us as a study. We don't want to miss out on any of these opportunities. Tomorrow, I might actually come up with a brilliant idea—or not.