Status of Women Committee on Feb. 1st, 2018

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

My final question is for Ms. Peterson. It is in regard to community courts. This study will bring forward recommendations on how we can help indigenous women access the justice system and better outcomes. If there were one thing that you could ask for, would a community court be that one thing?

[Denise Peterson]

Yes. Can I elaborate on that?

In our community, the Siksika community, they've been very successful utilizing the process that they call Aiskapimohkiiks. It is a reflection of the restorative practice initiated under the Braithwaite process, and it has been extremely successful in doing diversion from both court and eventual incarceration.

The other thing we've used very successfully in the program is restorative practices in the schools. The particular school that I work in has a template model that has been adopted by many other schools, where we work on a 360° view to promote prevention to the court systems.

One of the fundamental—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Ms. Peterson—

[Denise Peterson]

I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

—we have run out of time. We're going to switch over to the next set of questions, which are going to come from Stephanie Kusie, and then we can get back. Thank you.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

First, my colleague and I were just wondering about the significance of the pins that you're wearing, if one of you would like to respond to that. I'm referring specifically to the identical ones that Savannah and Katharine are wearing.

I have seven minutes, ladies.

[Virginia Lomax]

It's Grandmother Moon, the Sisters in Spirit logo from NWAC's research initiative.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Okay, that's beautiful. That's very nice.

[Virginia Lomax]

It's with our October 4 vigils.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

We were just curious about that.

It's solidarity then.

[Virginia Lomax]

Yes, essentially.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Okay. Pardon me for trying to summarize in such a brief amount of time.

My sister did a research internship at the Elizabeth Fry Society, so I have great respect for the organization. She later went on to Cambridge and is now a successful economist with the Ontario government.

Savannah, why is segregation still used, despite the harmful effects? It's evident from what you have presented that it has horrible and startling effects for the incarcerated. Why is this not being recognized and different, more interactive forms of incarceration taking place? Why is there still such a great use of this method?

[Savannah Gentile]

In part, it's due to the lack of oversight of CSC. CSC operates in a cloak of secrecy. There's no transparency. There's not even an independent review of these segregation placements at the moment, although the courts are starting to suggest that there must be an independent adjudicator of segregation placements.

We're of the position that an independent adjudicator doesn't go far enough. It needs to be a judicial oversight, really, to have the effect that we need, to actually start to eliminate this practice.

Over time you see CSC's great resistance to any recommendations, dating back to the 1996 Arbour report. At the time, coming out of that report, we saw the regionalization of prisons, which was meant to create a new model from the “Creating Choices” report. After that process was under way and there were community partners brought in, in consultation, there were women's organizations there for the first time, where women in prison were consulted in the process, and an amazing, brilliant report was brought out.

Unfortunately, in the implementation phase, CSC was left to implement on its own. Very quickly, within a few months of implementation, we saw a change in the vision of these regional prisons to increasing security over time. For instance, at Grand Valley Institution in Kitchener, the guards didn't actually ever wear uniforms; uniforms came in, and quickly from there, we saw a lot of added restrictions.

Go ahead.

[Kassandra Churcher]

I'd love to jump in. I don't know how much time we have.

Getting back to the issue of segregation, that is something we actively engage on with the wardens all across Canada. We have regional advocate teams that monitor the conditions of confinement all across Canada. It is a standing issue on our agenda with every warden in Canada why they continue to use segregation in all its forms. We are often told that it is the last resort, or there are no really concrete alternatives, or sometimes that the women ask for it.

We have engaged in offering alternatives, many of them community-based. If a woman can't deal with the reality of what prison life is like, why not get her an escorted temporary absence so she can engage in the community? There are alternatives that exist.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much.

Virginia, further to that, would you say that healing lodges use practices that involve less segregation? If so, what benefit would additional healing lodges across the country provide, as indicated by my colleague across the way—for example, in Eastern Canada—for indigenous women who are incarcerated?

[Virginia Lomax]

It's our understanding that the lodges are less restrictive, that segregation is not used there in the same way it is in prisons, and that there's at the very least a focus on more culturally based healing and restorative justice, which is in line with a lot of indigenous legal traditions.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Please go ahead, Katharine.

[Katharine Curry, Policy Analyst, Native Women's Association of Canada]

I believe Okimaw Ohci also doesn't have any fences, and women are able to access the land for spiritual ceremonies. It's less of a physical barrier—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Sure, and that would be significant for them and their healing.

Savannah, from your experience, how has the process of involving victims of the crime in justice processes, such as having them appear at sentencing and parole hearings, affected the possibility of indigenous women being charged and incarcerated? Does it have an affect at all if the victims are present or not present? We're always interested in the victim implications of the processes.

[Savannah Gentile]

I can't, off the top of my head, find any instances where I've actually been involved in a case where that has happened. I'm not sure I could speak to the impact of having victims present or not.

I know that most of the women I meet with are very remorseful and in no way reject having the victims present. They're very willing to take responsibility, and in some cases, a little too willing. We have done some research on the hyper-responsibilization of indigenous women and the effect of their taking responsibility even when they may not be legally responsible. It's a very big problem.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Women feeling guilty; imagine that, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have 40 seconds left.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Sure.

Kassandra, does your organization have difficulty assisting indigenous women in rural areas? Of course, as Conservatives we have large rural areas that we represent.

[Kassandra Churcher]

Absolutely. I've spent six years in Nunavik, a remote, fly-in community in northern Quebec, so I can tell you that Nunavut and Nunavik are completely off the map in these discussions. There are little to no services for them. As for most Canadians across the country, if you're in a rural or on-reserve community, you have a severe lack of access to justice and appropriate services to deal with these issues.

Could I address the healing lodge question that you asked my colleague?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Actually, no.